Dr. Nigam Arora is an accomplished PhD chemist with an interest in translation of plant to accepted medicine. He is young and gives hope to all those who benefit from the use of cannabis through the application of chemical standards to the plant. This will make cannabis users feel justified in their knowledge that this super herb is beneficial to the human race and ultimately, and for our basic health needs should be re-introduced to our food source and hopefully available as a specially dosed, treatment.

Join John Malanca as he and Dr. Arora talk about the specifics of a cannabis routine and the future of this remarkable, multi-beneficial plant
John’s guest is Dr. Nigam Arora – join this fascinating conversation about what the future holds for cannabis products and consumers.

Transcript

Nigam Arora, PhD – Cannabis is Here; SO what’s Next for Consumers?

John Malanca 0:00
Welcome back, everybody. This is John Malanca. With united patients group be informed and be Well, today’s special guest is Dr. Nigam Aurora. He’s an expert in interdisciplinary life science research, with present focused on medical cannabis and cannabis and whole. He received his PhD from Purdue University where his research sat at the nexus of organic chemistry, medical device manufacturing as well as nanotechnology. Dr. Rose longstanding interest in translational research and entrepreneurship led him to enter the cannabis industry where he has held positions as the Chief Scientific Officer of a cannabis data company based out of Mrs. QB, Massachusetts, as well as its chief of staff and head of licensing for multi licence holder here in California. Additionally, Dr. Aurora serves as a co organising organizer for cannabis focus symposia at the American Chemical Society, the ACS and at their national meetings. These symposiums are organized by the cannabis chemistry which is ca And which is a subdivision of ACS, which Dr. Er serves as a publication committee chair. Dr. Aurora also spent one year serving on the policy committee of the Humboldt County growers Alliance, which is the largest cannabis industry advocacy organization, California. And probably the oldest two will get in that. In his current position. Dr. Er serves as the Chief Strategy Officer at via innovations, a leading cannabis formulation company with a strong track record of bringing innovation to the space of medical cannabis. And that’s how I know you, Doctor as well. But Welcome to show. Thanks for being on. How are you doing today?

Dr Nigam Arora 1:42
Yeah, so happy to be here. Thanks for the invite. Doing great. Happy to get into some of these topics with you today.

John Malanca 1:50
Yeah, so first off, translational research. I know translational medicine. Can you break that up? I know it’s your scientists. Your background. Sure, talk a little bit more about that.

Dr Nigam Arora 2:03
Absolutely. So translational research is something I’m particularly interested in. So what that means is it is the process of translating something that we do in the lab on the bench to something that we can take to the market to the consumer. So often what we find in research, especially fundamental research, is that scientists and academics are chasing a theoretical knowledge and for the purpose of publication and for advancing or field on a theoretical front. So that’s great for advancing research itself. But

without, but some of these

things never make it to market. Now. The translational process is important because it helps us make sure that some of these most important advancements do make it to market and there’s actually for example, at Purdue they have a Pretty big emphasis on this and they have kind of programs for myself as a student, there were classes and programs I could participate in, as a PhD student to learn and understand that process and I actually coming from an entrepreneurial background had a big focus on that. So even when I entered a PhD, I was passionate about chemistry and about interdisciplinary science. But I wanted to learn not just about the science, but about how do we take the science or the scientific advancements to the consumer rapidly. So that’s what we mean by translational.

John Malanca 3:36
And so let’s go with consumer because what we do here united patients group and bringing experts like you on is information, education, you know, helping patients, their families, their doctors, avoid the tangled web in this industry and, you know, having a, I guess a deadline, like we do with my father in law, you and I’ve spoken off offline, you know, he was given to Two weeks to live. And we were very fortunate, you know, it was the blind leading the blind back then it was trial and error. Thank goodness, we didn’t have any errors. We had success. And so but nowadays, this industry is booming with all the different products, what to trust, what to listen to what to use. And so with scientists like you and bringing new products to market, you know, how does the consumer choose the best cannabis products, you know, for their needs? You know, when I said we jumped in this industry back in 2010 2011, THC was the buzzword Of course, and we’re very fortunate in battling cancer with my father in law. He had a four to one ratio of THC to CBD, and so does THC matter. And it’s our CBD because Everywhere you look, and now it’s kind of taken over the market. And so what are your thoughts of that?

Dr Nigam Arora 4:57
Totally. So yeah, I’ll do it. I’ll address a few of those questions. So first thing is yes, THC does absolutely matter. But so I want to go back to your first question about how does a consumer some of the baseline things to to choose a good product for them and then let’s come back and then we’ll incorporate in that a little bit of the components that they should be looking for. And as you’ve mentioned, ratios and stuff like that. So there’s a few baseline things that consumers should be looking for. The first one is for safety and confidence in their brands. So be that a brand that contains or I say a brand or product that contains THC that is either sold in the regulated market in their state regulated market, or maybe that is homegrown or homegrown is allowed, which is which it is in several states. I’m a big supporter of that. I think it makes sense for people to be able to create their own medicine affordably at home, but wherever the sources say So the brand or the store where you’re buying it, do they have certificates of analysis showing that these products have been tested by certified lab at safe. And on top of that, you can kind of check check the track record, you can talk to folks at the store, you can talk to people in your network, maybe your doctor who you worked with to learn about medical cannabis or even you got to be careful what resources you use, but there are online resources where people are posting reviews and experiences and stuff like that. So you don’t want to rely too heavily on any one of these things. But it’s it’s just like anything in life. Having multiple places multiple tools, you can begin to understand kind of holistically what what is going on with these products. So the other thing I would say in a similar vein is for people who are utilizing cannabis from Hungary. That it’s equally important to make sure that it’s being done safely because there are concerns with use of fertilizers, pesticides, things like this. So a lot of labs will, or at least when I was in Massachusetts working there, for example, I know there are labs there that would test homegrown cannabis and you can do the same thing you can get tested to make sure it’s safe. So and then the other thing is just to build experience with people who have learned how to use organic growing practices and stuff like that. So those those are some avenues to ensure safety. Now going to specific products and discussion of THC and other cannabinoids so this is really a very personal and condition specific topic. But what I can say broadly, is that for each person there’s going to be for each person and for a certain condition or need There’s going to be specific products that are, excuse me, specific cannabinoids, or ratios of cannabinoids are going to be best for them. So for example, as you mentioned, for your father in law, he was using a four to one CBD to THC ratio

John Malanca 8:15
actually the other way around.

Dr Nigam Arora 8:17
Or I’m sorry.

John Malanca 8:18
Yeah, back in those days when you would say four to one, the four used to be the key and so that you always know because there are still some companies out there that you will use that same ratio for four to one so for our listeners for parts, it’ll say four to one ratio for parts GC to one CBD or Nowadays most companies will say four parts CBD to one part THC. So please make sure you know because that could be a ugly mistake which we which we’ve seen quite a few years that uncomfortable mistake, I should say not a negative mistake. So totally so can you there.

Dr Nigam Arora 8:57
No, no, no worries at all that that’s an excellent clarification. In an interesting historical perspective as well,

but

anyway, so for example, each individual is different. So depending on the condition depending on tolerance and also things like a need for function for So for example, if someone is recovering and they’re able to take time off, and they’re not needing to work or drive a vehicle or stuff like that, there may be different options for them versus maybe someone who needs to use cannabis as medicine to mitigate pain or to mitigate other symptoms during to regulate certain body functions and continue to work or do different functions. So CBD is, is great. It has a lot of benefits, especially in combination with other cannabinoids such as THC. And there’s other cannabinoids of interest too, especially here in California we have pretty great access to things like CBG Delta eight THC, bn, a thca cbda some of these kind of more novel cannabinoids so we can get into more later what some of those are supposedly good for. But, um, yeah, so there’s a lot to explore for the consumer, though,

John Malanca 10:18
you know, you being an advocate for consumers as well, and with what you’re doing what, let’s, let’s back up a little bit, you know, you’re talking about safety, you know, use with confidence, grow with confidence. If you’re if you’re doing a home grow, what do you say for the families and the or the growers or the patients that don’t live in legal state? Yes, they can grow. They can grow but they don’t have access to really go go test it to see Okay, do I still have are there pesticides in here? Is there mold in my medicine? Is there any, you know, easy way I mean, I always share with people you know, it’s Beautiful plants to grow, don’t get caught. I’m not advising anybody to break the law. But I also say, you know, before you uproot yourself, and you become a canvas refugee, fly out to a legal state, two days, two weeks, two months, whichever you’re able to do, and see if this even this, this medicine works for you, the plant works for you. Because the last thing and I’m certain you agree with me is that this isn’t the golden pill, the golden ticket, you know, it’s not, you know, Here, take this, and you’re healed. You know, so, what do you ever share that with with,

I guess, consumers that you’re working with?

Dr Nigam Arora 11:37
Yeah. So great topic and a few feedbacks there. So one, I agree with you. This is not a panacea. And And not only is it not a panacea, but high quality cannabis flour contains hundreds of useful molecules. So as we were discussing when we’re saying THC, that’s one molecule out of hundreds we tank CBD. It’s one molecule at 100. So it so That’s important. But to answer your direct question, a few things that I would recommend I do support what you’re saying that folks who don’t have legal options in their locality. I think that’s great to travel somewhere where you can assess it in a legal and safe way and begin to understand it. I think that’s great. The only thing I would say, for people doing home grow without access to testing, there are pretty well known organic growing practices, pesticide free practices that you can utilize, to kind of as a baseline, avoid some of these things. So you’re never putting harsh chemicals as nutrients in your soil. You’re never putting harsh pesticides on your plants that may kind of stay there as residuals later so and then the last thing that I would advise is advocacy. So there’s a long history and we can go back That’s that’s a whole topic for another show, maybe. But there’s a long history of advocacy. And the way that we have legal cannabis in a lot of these states is that folks there, cared about it and they weren’t afraid to stand up and say that it should be legal, if nothing else for medical purposes so that that’s another thing. I know, it can be hard, but for some people, depending on their their jurisdiction, to make your voice heard, and and that kind of thing, but I think that in the year 2020, cannabis in so many states is a essential business and COVID and all these things. I think advocacy is as important as ever, especially for those folks who don’t have safe and regulated access yet in their local jurisdiction.

John Malanca 13:51
Yeah, I think the stigma is dropping, you know, as you and I talked, you know, crud I started united patient Back in 2010 2011 in the stigma was there big time. And we talked about this because I’m right. I didn’t use Malanca in the in my our press releases and people got upset. And I asked you the same thing. How did you tell your parents because your sisters are hard?

Doctors and she is well,

Dr Nigam Arora 14:21
yeah, she’s a

John Malanca 14:22
PhD doctor. He’s a doctor and I said, Boy, how do you how do you share this with your parents? Mom, Dad, I’m going to get into the cannabis industry. So but the stigma has changed a lot. And I remember when you shared this with your parents, you said you sat them down. And you had a full on talk. He said, Mom, Dad, let me just talk and the entrepreneur and your dad in seeing what was going on. I love that story was like, son, you have my backing. You know, go for it. So having that parental support is really, really nice. But bringing that stigma down, like you said, right now we’re in 33 states, including district of columbia after This 2020 election course that numbers gonna go up you know, so it’s people are realizing there’s another way in by battling other ailments with the help of cannabis, you know, bringing your opioid use down, maybe avoiding chemo radiation, you know if you if you if you have something as serious as cancer, you talked about the hundreds of cannabinoids in your cannabinoid book. What is your numbers? I’ve heard everything from 120 up to 250. Were you in there on the in more being discovered each and every day? That’s that’s

Dr Nigam Arora 15:40
totally so I’m gonna put a caveat here that these numbers are not exact, but I’ll just share some kind of general knowledge here. So to clarify, what I said is there are hundreds of useful molecules in the planet So, there are from recent presentations that I’ve seen with analytical experts who are actually doing the work to in their own labs validate how many contaminants can they identify, for example, deti, Mary’s lab at Technion in Israel does work like this. So, last presentation I saw they were at 130 cannabinoids. So but then there’s other things we need to consider. So there are terpenes. So I’ve seen numbers, I believe, for really high grade flour as high as traces of 30 or 40 terpenes in a single flower. Wow. So then we have other molecules, flavonoids that are not terpenes, but still contribute to the flavor or some of the sensory inputs and may have some other benefits down the line. Now, there’s also A whole realm of other plant molecules, you think about any plant now, I don’t think I can just think about any plan out there. What are the molecules that make up? You know, these plant families in general and what are the potential physiological or medical benefits of those molecules. So so then when we stack all these numbers on top of each other, that’s why I’m saying there’s hundreds of potentially useful molecules the The other thing that I should clarify, to get back to the cannabinoids is that there are in let’s talk about one strain one flower. So if you go to the dispensary and you purchase some flour, that singular strain that that you have in your hand, maybe there’s 10 or 12 or 15 cannabinoids in that thing that you have in your hand, I’m not saying there’s going to be 140 cannabinoids in that one that those hundred and 30 or 130 140 number is what has been identified. Cannabis in general. Yeah, in the whole realm. So the other thing kind of last comment I want to make there is that as we were discussing earlier about safety and awareness of the kind of chemistry behind what is in your product, what is in your plant is that you can often get this thing for these brands. And it’s pretty it’s becoming more popular in regulated industries like in California, that you can request a what’s called a certificate of analysis, or a CMA and more and more brands are becoming conscious of making this available to the sellers like the dispensary so they can have it they’re ready for the customers. So what I want to highlight as a chemist is that so in your CMA, it may show that there’s, you know, let’s say there’s five cannabinoids, or 10 cannabinoids and there’s five terpenes. Let’s just say for example, 10, cannabinoids five terpenes. Now, that doesn’t mean those are the only things in there, that means a few things. One, those are the ones a state probably tells the labs to test for. Those are the ones that the lab has the standards for and has the ability to test for. And then also, those are the ones that are within the range of detection of that labs instruments. So for example, if your certificate of analysis says there’s 10 cannabinoids, you know, there could be 20 cannabinoids in 10 of them, you’re never going to see, because the lab is doing this as a business. They’re doing this as a regulatory measure. They’re not doing it as like a scientific experiment to identify every my new shove every molecular component in that flower. So just as a chemist, I feel the need to kind of clarify my statements there.

John Malanca 19:45
So with you being a chemist, do you have those that type of machinery where you can go in there and not just stop from the 10 if they’re if they’re 20 or 30 other cannabinoids in there. I mean, they all have a benefit, you know, and In that’s the thing that will Yes. Well, let me let me get you so it because I’ve worked with scientists down at University of California, Santa Cruz, and he would go in there and make his own medicine, he would test in his lab, and he would take it to another lab, it would be completely off. And he’s like when I know it, because I grew it. I tested in our lab, and why are your your results different? Back in the day we’re TC was the king and everybody wanted the highest rate ratios, etc. These labs come back and they would say give them high numbers and he was like, Listen, I don’t need the high numbers. I just need me to know what’s in it for me to put it on the market. It has to be to have that, you know, third party testing. They’re not going to trust the lab here at the University of California, Santa Cruz. For a movie, etc. I want everyone because a lot of people come to us and say I want the medical portion the cannabis plant. I don’t want the recreational portion So tea, they all have all these cannabinoids have their benefits, your terpenes haven’t been their benefits, even the flavonoids and so THC has been proven to kill cancer cells. It’s, you know, minute amounts will help. It’s like having you know, if you’re going to go do a wine tasting, you’d have a sip of wine or you can drink three bottles of wine, three bottles of wine, you’re probably going to be completely loaded a sip of wine, you’re not the same thing with with with cannabis bringing into the entourage effect, why they all have their purpose in there. Can you talk about you being a chemist talk about the benefits of the flavonoids, terpenes. And cannabinoids being brought together and how that entourage effect works and why it’s so important for our bodies.

Dr Nigam Arora 21:46
Sure, absolutely. And I you’re saying something interesting about the testing earlier. So if you want let’s come back to that, but let me answer your direct question now. So yeah, the entourage effect is really important. And I like how you brought that up. It’s interesting. It’s just an issue. Comment and I think it shows some negativity on the for some consumers and we’re all naive about different things. So so that’s no offense, but when you say the medical versus recreational, it’s almost humorous because it’s just one. It’s just one plant. And it’s really about how you use it, the amount you use it the products you’re using that define that. So anyways, what to speak to the entourage effect. Yes, I’m happy to. So the basis the most simplistic way I can express it is that

anything any one

cannabinoid or terpene, that you can isolate from the cannabis plant is likely going to be less useful for a medical purpose than a combination of these things. So for example, if someone is just to take straight THC, or here’s an example that we can take this is this is a great one. So A lot of people are familiar with epidiolex which is the first FDA approved cannabis based drug now, and that’s created by this company. GW GW GW Pharma exactly I was facing for a sec. So now, what some people don’t know is that GW had a drug years ago before that called Sativex that was on the market for a long time I forget if it’s 15 or 20 years, it was a long time. And a lot of people thought, Okay, this, this is going to be the revolution, we’re going to have, you know, cannabis based medicine on the market. But Sativex was essentially pure THC.

And

you know, what the patients didn’t like it the people that gave it to for cancer pain or for wasting syndrome due to cancer and things like that. It didn’t really work for them. And the folks who, especially who would use cannabis, before whole plant medicine, utilizing the entourage effect, especially knew the truth. So this is just a really valid example. When that single molecule the THC,

even when provided by a big pharma company,

it looked at helping people. So now you look at their new drug epidiolex it is mostly CBD large large portion CBD, but there is a little bit of other cannabinoids so to take us back to the entourage effect so at the very baseline, let’s add to cannabinoids so not just THC, but THC and CBD. And then if we’re going to go into a, you know, you can begin to add others all the way up to when you get back to the full plant. So I explained it in one way starting with THC and building back up, but I want to represent it in another way. So I’m a big believer in whole plant medicine. There is it’s interesting how nature and evolution works that There’s a reason that these things have evolved and exist in the form they’re in. So we take the cannabis flour. And as we’ve mentioned high quality flour, we’ll have a large amount of cannabinoids a large amount of terpenes flavonoids already in that flower. So that is the broadest, more full blown entourage effect you’re going to get now different flowers will have different different chemical blends. And for folks who don’t like to smoke, there’s a lot of other options. You can do a simple extraction at home with olive oil or butter and things like that. So a lot of options for folks to get these molecules into their bodies. But then, as we go down from there, there is you know, in the industry, people who do extraction for to make kind of refined products such as you know, Rick Simpson oil or other things like that. So they’re every step in refinement, you’re kind of losing a part of the entourage effect all the way down to where you get to where GW was was satisfactory. have just THC. So I hope that answer your questions.

John Malanca 26:03
Yeah, yeah. And with that shout of X was maybe that was their beginning because I think now not trying to put you on the spot or correct you I think they went they are a 2.75 of THC milligram THC and a 2.75 milligram of CBD. And their company has been around and I don’t think they made any money on their Saturday product because they they people have replicated it a one to one ratio, you know, what people are doing and it wasn’t available here in the US. Now epidiolex You know, I think they got creative and worked with our government here. And, you know, the story goes that the US government lent or released the patent over to GW pharmaceutical they came out with epidiolex change of scheduling for that. Now, it’s this is not where I was gonna go with this conversation anyway, sorry, man. But you know, we’re our chemists. But now it’s Sativex again. Excuse me epidiolex breaking the stigma down because now your doctors are talking about it your neurologist talking about it your pharmacists are talking about it’s it’s accepted in pharmacists and pharmacies now. And it’s I guess insurance covers it. You have a dear friend her daughter is on it right now. And I would at first I was like not going to work not gonna work not gonna work. It works and they’ve been using cannabis for the last three, four years for it. She’s not she’s an autistic functioning autism, autism. Female at 20 with with epilepsy as well, and actually negative it’s working. And so it told you know, and I’ve seen it and and, you know, it’s cheaper because insurance is covering it. But I’ve had that at first I was like, Don’t do it. Don’t do it. Don’t do it and seeing with my own eyes, that it is working. You know, I’d love to get epidiolex on the show to explain this, you know, because a lot of people are pushed away but it’s not available for everybody cannabis is not available for everybody one, but also to it’s expensive, you know if you’re going through that much product in a day for some people have to take high doses of CBD with and again, I didn’t want to go down the whole Apple epidiolex topic. Do you know if it’s available in all 50 states? Or is it only available in legal states? I don’t even know I have to research that.

Dr Nigam Arora 28:34
Yeah, I’m so

I’m not I don’t want to speak to that firmly but because it is FDA, excuse me because it is FDA approved. I would hope it is also just to confirm what you’re saying. I just did a quick search while we’re sitting here talking that you’re correct about Sativex, now it is a one to one ratio. So just to clarify for the listeners. I think that either the formulation was changed from when it first came out or maybe it wasn’t Sativex that I was referencing but there was a different drug prior but but the the point of my story holds true from before that pure THC was tried before in one form or another for patients and it didn’t work is the point so but but, but I see that Sativex currently as a formula is you’re correct does have that one to one ratio and that’s great to hear that you know, folks who it’s working for and I actually um, and I’m sorry, what was your direct question following that? I don’t even know but

John Malanca 29:38
i was i was thinking maybe it would maybe was Marinol that was a THC pill. Oh,

Dr Nigam Arora 29:43
that’s I’m sorry. That’s exactly what it was. I said Sativex. But I meant to say Marinol. That’s exactly what it was. So thank you for that.

John Malanca 29:50
And I and I actually, I know a lot of doctors in this industry that are in illegal states that can recommend and they do that for some of their pain patients. And Just as they can get some cannabinoids in their system here, too. So nother conversation on the pharmaceutical side of this industry, when it comes to you know, with the big with Big Pharma getting involved with their two, what do you recommend for cannabis naive patients, you know that first time there, you know, again trial and error either they live in illegal state or they don’t want to you know or they’re afraid to ask the question to their family members or doctors and they go down there and try it themselves. You know, it’s not a one size fits all I share this all the time. Not a one size fits all. It’s, you know, you have to look at age, the weight, the current health condition, as you mentioned earlier, and the patient and even other medications that they’re on, and you know, sensitivities, you know, and it’s not just a one size fits all as I mentioned, can you talk about what you would recommend for cannabis naive patients. Yeah,

Dr Nigam Arora 30:59
just Definitely. So and I think you did a great job of summarizing the complexities. So the first thing in this is just something that everyone says, you know, Ethan or so says at our mutual friend Beth though, says it, that start low, go slow. So that’s good baseline. If you forget everything I said after this start low, go slow.

So other things, enter, you know, that’s

John Malanca 31:25
in Sativex is a instruction manual when you get there. Yeah, so even the pharmaceutical companies are saying, Okay, let’s go. Are they directed is that his start low, go slow, but it says, start low. See how your body reaction go that way. And I mean, I worked a lot of pharmacists, and they’re just, you know, I showed them right there. Listen, I’ll be darned. You know. So anyway,

Dr Nigam Arora 31:50
let’s play I guess I wonder if that’s a doctor. So there’s a lasting influence, because I know that that’s a big mantra of heads, and then he was with GW before so maybe, maybe that’s maybe he You know, his legacy continues So, but anyways, so other kind of useful inputs for beginning users or naive users. One is that the we often hear this thing about THC being in a toxic and CBD not being an intoxicant.

I don’t love that black and white delineation. But what I would say is

that it’s good to start with products that contain CBD because here’s what happens is that CBD actually, on a receptor level is competing with the THC. So if you consume both at the same time, it’s actually going to lead to get some of the benefits of that THC and the therapy, the therapeutic benefit, and even some of this, you know what our society calls the high but the CBD helps kind of keep it at a more moderate level. So for a first time user, trialing something that is a, you know, has CBD in it be at a one to one ratio or something. I think that’s good. The other thing that I can recommend is to just, for example, if you’re going to use a something like smokeable or vapable product to take, don’t just don’t go overboard, it goes back to start low and go slow. Take one hit Wait, if you’re smoking or vaping, wait 1015 minutes. And here’s the thing we’ve got a lot, you know, there’s a lot of time, there’s always more, so there’s no rush on the flip. And then when you’re talking about edible products, there’s always a good option to take smaller doses. So especially if you’re in a recreational market and you’re buying a pack of gummies or a chocolate bar or something to take one piece or even half a piece. There’s no shame and kind of gummy bear in half these kinds of things. The other thing that I want to say is that, you know, cannabis is, is it’s been prevalent in our society, and it’s really permeating more and more with legality in recent years. So I would say don’t be shy to reach out to folks, you know, or to seek resources. I know, United patients group has a lot of resources for people on this topic. And there’s other resources as well. So, you know, it is unfortunate when stigma inhibits people and inhibits their ability to talk with their families and stuff like that. But I would say there’s always somebody so everyone has a colleague or coworker or friend or family member, somebody who has an understanding of cannabis. So I guess what I’d say is there’s no reason to go at it alone. There. There’s a you know, seek support, even if it’s on your personal network from a group that knows how to assess patients like yours. So

John Malanca 34:58
it’s funny I remember when you and I A few weeks ago, we’re talking about that. And I think the best type of education is almost like the ripple effect, like throwing the pebble in the pond and the ripples go that way, but getting it out there so and listening to our show here, they can share it with their family member who shares it with a doctor, etc, etc. You know, I’ve had phone calls from buddies from high school saying, Thank you, and I said, Well, it’s like, my mom spoke with you. Or my mom spoke, you know, the biggest advocate, my mom who is unless my if my dad didn’t marry or I guaranties used to be a nun, so, but she’s been the biggest advocate, but sometimes it takes at someone that’s out of your circle that’s out of your true family or your little family circle to open the door and say, Ah, it’s like, well, I’ve been trying to tell you this for years mom, but you haven’t listened. And so, I think the education is important for consumers. Understanding products as you’re talking about Nigam is you know, look for the the test results. In a legal state, you know, it’s almost common sense. But if you’re an illegal state, you know and you go you you purchase your your product, your medicine, at a dispensary. And if they don’t have all all companies now should have a barcode a QR code or a, you know, recent test results and I say recent tests in short, I’m a fan of more about four months old, I wouldn’t look at something and try something that has a year or a year and a half old test results and so make sure they have test results if they don’t have it in their dispensary. Try another product, can I guarantee there’s a month there’s a bunch of them out there, if they don’t call the actual company itself, you know, they should nowadays with regulations that you’re as you were talking about all products. I don’t know if that’s available in all states, but the majority of states, you know, that are even coming on are stricter than we are here in California because back in the day, there were no regulations and if you Had if you had test results for a product, you know, that was a rarity now, you know now it’s almost it is mandatory. What with you with, I guess, VA innovations? Are you coming up with new products? You want to talk about that or is it not? Not yet for the public?

Dr Nigam Arora 37:22
No, yeah, I’m happy to touch on a briefly. So I work with a cannabis product formulation company called via innovations. So we’re working on some exciting things we formulate in a few different areas. One of which is oral dosing, so basically, fast dissolving tablets. So that’s pretty cool. It’s if you think about taking a kind of traditional cannabis edible, where you would take a cookie or a brownie and, you know, it may take 90 minutes or two hours. hours to work and the dosing is inconsistent. and stuff like that, versus taking a pharmaceutical grade tablet that melts under your tongue and a few seconds gives you an exact dose is formulated in a way that it works quickly. And you know exactly what you’re getting. And there’s different ones that mimic the the different effects you could get from an indica hybrid or cityville. Plant. I know that those terms are falling out of favor in the industry, but yet here we are still using them. So anyways, that’s one thing. Va innovations also is working on topicals. So we have some really interesting IP on topical formulations. For example, excuse me, sunscreen. So that’s something to keep an eye out for in the future is sunscreen that’s enhanced with cannabinoids that we’ve actually done research to show that cannabinoids can enhance the protection of sunscreen. So that’s really great. And then aside from sunscreen, there’s other benefits. For example, I’m sure a lot of folks are familiar with these kind of muscle rubs or other topical treatments for joint pain or muscle pain or dermatitis and stuff like that. So so we’re working in that realm, as well. So those are some of the things I can share for now. And I definitely would encourage folks to keep an eye out for via innovations technology in the future. And yeah, definitely check out our site and feel free to reach out to us there if you have any interest in

pharmaceutical grade cannabis formulations.

John Malanca 39:49
It’s funny you talk about you know, all the different uses of cannabis. And a lot of times when I present I’ll put up on this on the screen and one of my slides is a big roll of duct tape. And the audience looks at me like hey, You have the wrong wrong slide up there and I said, This duct tape you know people always ask me Does it work for this? Does it work for that? Is it use useful for sunburns? And I always say you know, and I don’t want to say cannabis is like duct tape with 1,000,001 uses but when you really get down to it i mean i know i know patients that use it on buck CBD on bug bites as well as on sunburns. So you you coming up with a product or sunscreen i think is fantastic. Before we get away, you’ve spoken about the edibles and we’re talking about you know, cannabis naive patients, you know, smoking vaping you said take one, one little drag just to see where your body reacts and how it how it reacts. It’s not for everybody. edibles sometimes take half hour up to an hour and a half, 90 minutes before you feel anything. And so just because it looks tiny and small, it looks it’s totally safe. Be careful because sometimes you don’t feel it. And this happens a lot with a lot of seniors that we work with is it’s a delicious Cookie they eat it they say God I want another cookie I’m not feeling anything and next thing you know, they think they’re having a heart attack and they’re going to the hospital a lot of er doctors that we work with, say one of the number one things for for seniors that come in here and actually just cannabis naive patients is they think they’re having a heart attack when it’s actually they just received a double dose of cannabinoids, sometimes a little more comfortable than they’re expecting. And cannabis once eaten. It’s not like you know, alcohol, you drink too much and you throw up and go, Okay, I feel better now already. I won’t be doing that again. edibles will stay in your system and it’s it’s not life and death but it could be uncomfortable if that ever happens. sleep it off. You know, take a warm shower if you’re able to do it. Dr. Berman, who we’ve had on the show numerous times talks about chewing on pepper furniture, or I call it the antivenom is have a CBD vaporizer pen that you can have and it’s amazing I know your take some more than most patients like are you nuts nigga, I’m going to take Some more. But I’ve seen it. And it’s Can you share that before we before we part ways here and why and how that balances out? The overabundance of teaching the system?

Dr Nigam Arora 42:11
Sure, yeah, let me respond to that directly. And then I want to come back to something about via innovations. So yeah, you make a good point. I was actually thinking that Dr. Berman’s input. I’ve heard that as well. I haven’t tried it personally. But I’ve heard experts say that and I don’t doubt it. And you’re correct. I was gonna say the same thing. That it’s it’s funny, usually you’re right. It’s bad advice to say, oh, you’re having trouble take more. But to clarify for having trouble with THC. We’re not saying take more THC. We’re saying take CBD. And then as I referenced earlier, that on a molecular level, what’s happening so these molecules are binding to receptors in our system, which are giving us these cognitive effects. So what happens on a molecular level is a CBD is outcompete. The teach the floor space on those receptors. So what you’re doing basically is you’re replacing the high you’re replacing the effect. So if you’re having too much of a high and an over effect from THC, you’re exactly right which you can do is you can use a CBD vaporizer or like a fast acting CBD edible or something which which I’ll speak to in a moment from the innovations to do exactly what you said to calm down that high so I wanted to reference something else. And this is this is kind of an interesting thing and when I think is a legacy thing and it’s kind of interesting at the legacy thing in this moment, it’s a recreational thing, but because we have this issue with, you know, patients rights and act right to access of cannabis, we have this whole blend of medical and recreational and homegrown In all these things, you know, California is a leader now, but how did we get this leadership status? We started 20 plus years ago saying, let’s call it medical and get it moving in other people who cared, got under that umbrella and so on and so forth. Right. But anyways back talk about these products. But what I’m saying about the legacy is that it’s kind of, its kind of interesting. I don’t want to say silly, but maybe it’s a little bit silly that you take a person who needs medicine, like let’s say you take a person who needed to take an aspirin, or other heart or to take a ibuprofen for muscle pain. You wouldn’t put ibuprofen in a brownie and say here patient, take a picture, eat one 16th of this brownie and tell me how you feel in 90 minutes. You give them a safe, GMP, pharmaceutically formulated pill with an exact dose and they know exactly how it works and dispensing studied and verified by pharmaceutical experienced pharmaceutical companies and by medical doctors. So that’s exactly what via innovations does. So when I was referencing earlier, some of these tablet products that we kind of focus on and, and only IP four is that that’s exactly what it is. Because you think about someone who like an older person who maybe has pain or has other issues, or you know, sleep and these kind of things, and they want to try cannabis. Why are we giving or why why is it that the option for this person is gummy bears or cookie, if they can have a tablet that’s just like your aspirin, and it works medically and it’s exact dosing and it works not in 30 to 90 minutes, but maybe in 30 to 45 minutes so it works faster, right so you can understand and you can dose more appropriately. So I think this evolution from kind of the legacy and some of the He’s kind of mixed things between the rack and the man and the right to access and all that and moving towards kind of solidifying the the function as a medicine. That’s, that kind of aligns with how we understand medicine and other realms. I think that makes sense. And I think that’s good for the consumer to be able to use it use cannabis as medicine, while avoiding some of these potentially negative effects that we hear these stories about.

John Malanca 46:28
Well, it sounds like you guys are on on. I should say the future looks bright for cannabis patients of what’s out what’s around the corner and be innovations. And so is this a working company right now where the products are available, or are you still at the startup stage?

Dr Nigam Arora 46:51
Yeah, great question. So the innovations was started about three years ago by the founder and my colleague, Dr. Mom. A veal pondo. So it started as a consultancy and now has grown into an IP and technology company focused on this space. So what we’re working on right now is continuing to build and solidify our IP portfolio. And we’re working with partners and assessing options for bringing this technology to consumers in legal jurisdictions. So I unfortunately, I can’t point the listeners right now to the product. But you know, john has so much enjoyed getting to know you and appreciate your invite to be on your show. And what I’ll make sure to do when we’re moving closer to that in the coming months to drop you a line and maybe what we could do is have a refresher and give people an idea of kind of what we’re working on and where they can kind of find this technology.

John Malanca 47:53
I’d love to have you on again, I’ve enjoyed you being on the show, Dr. Nigam Aurora and I was going to say the whole list but I’ll say beat with the innovations will get you back on the show and you can share more about what you’re doing and what you’ve developed for the consumer and say, you know, safety and accurate dosing formulations for the patient. So, any closing words? Are you good right now?

Dr Nigam Arora 48:18
Oh, yeah, I just like to say thanks. And to, you know, the listeners if they’re, you know, seeking more information. There is the American Chemical Society, which john mentioned in the beginning I work with, they have a cannabis chemistry subdivision, which focuses on bringing professionals in the space forward to discuss research and give them a platform to present the research and disseminate valid knowledge in the space. So that’s a good resource. And other than that, you know, of course, United patients group so yeah, that’s kind of what I like close with and and hope See you soon. by Claude john,

John Malanca 49:01
thank you very much Dr. Nigam era. Let’s get you back on the show and thanks for your time as well and sharing your expertise and, and knowledge of this wonderful plant. Everyone. This is John Malanca with the United patients group being formed and be will, we’ll see you soon. Bye bye. I jemalloc here with United patients group. I hope you’ve enjoyed our videos, please click like, as well as subscribe to our channel here on YouTube. Also, follow us on Twitter at you patients group and on Facebook united patients group as well as for our podcasts. Please click the link in the description below. We’ll see you there. Bye bye