If you have pet’s you’ll want to see this interview with John Malanca and Dr. Gary Richter, M.S., D.V.M., C.V.C., C.V.A. , #1 Amazon Best-Selling Author, The Ultimate Pet Health Guide. https://drgaryrichter.com
Check out these resources: The Ultimate Pet Health Guide available on Amazon LongevityForPets.com HolisticVetCare.com Ultimate Pet Nutrition (ultimatepetnutrition.com) Veterinary Cannabis Society (vcs.pet)
Dr. Gary Richter is a graduate of the University of Florida with a B.S. in animal science, an M.S. in veterinary medical science, and a doctorate of veterinary medicine with honors. From 2002 to 2021, he was the owner and medical director of Montclair Veterinary Hospital in Oakland, California. He launched Holistic Veterinary Care in 2009, also in Oakland, California. Dr. Richter is certified in veterinary acupuncture as well as veterinary chiropractic and uses these therapies along with his veterinary medical education to achieve better outcomes for his patients.
Dr. Richter’s animal hospitals have received more than 30 local and national awards, including Best Veterinary Hospital, Best Veterinarian, Best Canine Therapy Facility, and Best Alternative Medicine Provider. Dr. Richter was named one of the top ten veterinarians in the United States for 2012, and America’s Favorite Veterinarian in 2015 by the American Veterinary Medical Foundation (AVMF). Dr. Richter also received The Holistic Practitioner of the Year Award from the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association in 2019. For more information on Dr. Richter’s work, as well as pet health resources to complement the book, please visit MyPetThrives.com
Cannabis And Your Pets: What You Need To Know with Dr. Gary Richter
John Malanca 0:05
Well, good to see a doc.
Dr. Gary Richter 0:09
Nice to see you as well.
John Malanca 0:11
It’s been a while. And so for everyone here, there’s Dr. Garry Richter. He is a doctor a veteran medicine here in this actually practicing the San Francisco Bay Area. And if anybody saw our interview with the shaker plant, he was highlighted and was very helpful. We did a whole segment on on Dr. Richter and his practice. And he has a beautiful practice here in the San Francisco Bay Area, which we’ll get into as well. But let me just read your bio, and then we’ll get into the questions. You know, we have a lot of like, we have a lot of our followers that asked, Hey, John, does this work on my pets? And so that’s why I really wanted to get you on because I have been using cannabis on our, on our pets for years. You know, we asked our vet and he said, Yeah, go for it, you know, and I can share some of those stories. But let me get back to you here. So, Dr. Richter, so And on top of not only being here in the San Francisco Bay Area, he’s a conventional veterinary medicine training. He’s certified in veterinary acupuncture, as well as chiropractic which I’m a big fan of for my body. As the owner of medical and director, medical director of holistic veterinary care in Oakland, California. Dr. Richter understands the benefits of both conventional as well as holistic treatment methods for the preventative as well as therapeutic care of pets, which are family. Dr. Ricker focuses on the integration of holistic and general practice veterinary medicine, regenerative medicine, as well as educating professionals and pet owners on the benefits of integrative care which we’ll get into by integrative medic medical cannabis by integrating medical cannabis with other conventional alternative therapies. Dr. Richter has been able to improve the quantity and quality of life of pets living with medical conditions ranging from arthritis to inflammatory bowel disease to cancer. Dr. Richter has written numerous articles for print, as well as web publications on various topics, including strategies to integrate the use of medical cannabis into conventional medical treatments and therapies for pets. His book, The Ultimate Pet Health Guide, was released in 2017. And Dr. Richter is the past president of the American College of Veterinary botanical medicine, as well as the founding member of the veterinary cannabis society. So congrats, and good to see you again.
Dr. Gary Richter 2:22
Thank you. It’s great to see you as well.
John Malanca 2:23
You’ve done a lot. And I think you left out in that bio that you’ve been nominated vetinary the year numerous times, haven’t you?
Dr. Gary Richter 2:32
Yeah, yeah. That is true.
John Malanca 2:34
Is that like the People magazine’s Sexiest Man out there? And kind of
Dr. Gary Richter 2:41
maybe there’s a tangential relationship there.
John Malanca 2:46
Anyway, good to have you on and thanks for all you do. And if anybody’s in the San Francisco Bay or not, and it has a chance he has a beautiful, you’re still in the same office, right, that has that? Yeah. I mean, it’s really designed for pets and pets, are family members, as I mentioned before, and I’ll get into your books and everything else that you’ve done, but for my own personal health, our doctor, my doctor is integrative as well as functional. And so I always get that question. Hey, John, what’s, what is integrative? Are they real doctors? You know, what’s their practice? And they are and so can you tell me what integrative means not only in the human world, but also the pet world, and why you specialize in that?
Dr. Gary Richter 3:27
Sure. So, you know, to me, integrative medicine means that, that I am, I am practicing conventional Western medicine that we have all had experience with and, and, you know, there are a lot of really good things that conventional Western medicine can do. There’s also some things that it can’t do, which is where the other side of this coin comes in, which is pretty much anything that would not fall in the, in the basket of conventional medicine. So, acupuncture, chiropractic, herbal therapy, ozone, hyperbaric oxygen, what have you, I mean, the, the potential modalities are kind of endless. But, but integrative medicine is the practice of taking both sides, conventional and non conventional medicine and weaving them all together to get a better result than you could possibly get with one or the other alone.
John Malanca 4:32
You know, it’s everything you mentioned, I do for my own health, ozone, you know, chiropractic acupuncture, you know, and you say cryotherapy as well,
Unknown Speaker 4:44
um, that that is that it’s not a modality that we’re currently doing, but that absolutely isn’t
John Malanca 4:49
mentioned one of the thing I was doing hyperbaric oxygen bearing hyperbaric Yeah, and so, you know, and it’s unfortunate that those aren’t looked at as conventional You know, the whole purpose of health and wellness and you being a medical professional is bringing bodies back to balance if it’s, of course, pets, but also with humans. And it’s disappointing that these things aren’t modalities that are covered by insurance, or even looked upon as something that bring, you know, helping, you know, when Corinne went through this illness and even in our health and her healthy days, we this is the type of practice that we use for our own person. So, and we found success. And so I love it that I think that’s why I connected to you when I interviewed you, actually, that about three years ago when we did the show, too. And so. So with those treatments, can you share? You know, you have a facility not only that has your typical vet that you’d say here? Can I bring my dog or cat in here and other animals, but you have a whole training area in the back room, which I thought was great, you know, which is kind of hidden, you have a pool for for rehab. And so you really take I mean, family, pets are family members. And so our, our, you know, I know, we’re in the San Francisco Bay area, we’re in California, so we’re more open minded to this. With this, do you ever get any hand slaps by the veterinary? I guess the magazine? is at the American Veterinary Association, like they like very similar to the AMA, is that, is this something that they frown upon? Because I know a lot of doctors I work with who are in the functional integrative world, you know, are constantly having to answer questions to the higher ups?
Unknown Speaker 6:28
Sure. You know, it’s a great question. And, and, you know, I think, I think your average veterinarian on the street, while while they don’t, well, most of them don’t practice holistic or integrative care, most of them understand that there is some value there, even though they may not really fully understand the bigger picture. So I think your average veterinarian would would sort of approach it in the sense of saying, like, this isn’t something I know anything about, but there may be some value, you know, there’s always going to be, you know, the establishment, if you will, that, you know, that you bet you push you push up against. And, gosh, that’s been particularly true on the on the cannabis side of things. Because there is just so much misinformation and misunderstanding about what it is and isn’t and what it does. So, there’s been a lot of pushback from the, from the, you know, the veterinary establishment in that regard, although even that is now finally changing. So, you know, I mean, I think for the most part, you know, like the, the AVMA and the Veterinary Medical Board and whatnot, they, they even for the most part, will let veterinarians do what they want to do as long as they’re doing it responsibly. Fortunately, we’re not quite as beholden to FDA approval, like, like our colleagues in human medicine are,
John Malanca 7:57
yeah, my neck or chiropractors and years ago, they said, and I always wanted to go that route. They said, I think she’d go go become a vet. And I said, why I said, most, most pets won’t sue us. Yeah. Right. You know, and it’s a tough environment. It’s a it is a tough environment. And you know, especially when a doctor of any level is trying to help you meaning any, any any specialty is trying to help you as a human Are you you know, your your or your pets. One thing you know, I’ve seen it’s funny when I had we had a cat that lived 29 lives, you know, and she had got over the moon. It’s been so long, like lymphoma, and our our vet said, we can put her to sleep and we said, may we try cannabis? He said yeah, and she was living in the in the litter box, eating in the litter box using the litter box sleeping litter box never got up. And we started putting cannabis in her food. And next thing you know, she’s moving. She’s out. Now she’s climbing up on the couch going outside coming back to our room and yelling at us like I’m hungry. Feed me. Well, she ended up living about two and a half years later, two blood tests later zero cancer. I remember when Thanksgiving which we’re coming up to. I was in the kitchen preparing my cousin goes is that the same cat? So she passed the whole day. So I’ve seen that. And I’ve seen conventional I had a dog years ago, a Rottweiler that end up having cancer. And our vet here in the barrier said you know we can give put her asleep or we can try around a chemo and you know, of course you don’t want it you know, I didn’t know anything about cannabis and this is early 2000 And we did around a chemo and I thought I’d be following her around with a diaper and picking up diarrhea because I kid you not Gary. These golf ball size pearl necklace is she had completely gone after one treatment, her energy level. So the doc said animals take better to stuff like this from conventional chemo radiation as well as cannabis that other modality is better than humans in a lot of cases. What why is that? Well,
Unknown Speaker 10:17
you know, I think it’s not, it’s not so much that they respond better. But I think the the goal of treatment is a little bit different. So and what I mean by that is the goal of treatment with chemotherapy or radiation with a human is a cure. Yeah. And unfortunately, what that means is, is that is that sometimes people will get poisoned within an inch of their life in the, in the hope of a cure. Which is why, you know, why there’s so much misery associated with with cancer therapy and humans. Clearly on the veterinary side, nobody, including veterinary oncologists have any interest in putting a dog through that. Yeah, so So our goal, and you know, from an oncology standpoint is rather than quantity of life, it’s quality of life. So ultimately, what that means is, is frequently the, the dosing of these chemotherapy drugs is a bit lighter. It’s not going to be quite as aggressive. The goal, you know, you know, such as a, you know, as an in case of your dog is get the dog into remission for as long as you possibly can. Yeah, eat them healthy and happy for as long as you can. And when that’s no longer possible, then decisions have to be made.
John Malanca 11:41
And that’s exactly what happened. She lived an extra three years. She ran, she was like a puppy again, it was amazing. If you were like, would you give her I said, Yeah, right. And she lived a great life and then came today that we did put her down and that was a very sad day. But we saw I said, I’ll be down. You know, I wish it would work like this when humans sometimes sure as well. And so the topic of cannabis you’re talking about the the witch God am the
Dr. Gary Richter 12:10
AVMA Veterinary Medical Association.
John Malanca 12:15
I think everywhere, not only with medical school, veterinary medical school, pharmacist, medical school, or pharmacy school. That stigma is starting to come down where people are saying, Okay, let’s talk about this. I mean, I can’t tell you how many of these conferences I see in veterinary that the topic of cannabis keeps on coming up. And it’s it’s funny, because let’s go to things and I think you and I talked about this last time. It still is it still illegal to for for VET veterinary doctor vet to recommend cannabis?
Dr. Gary Richter 12:50
Well, that’s a it’s a that’s a very nuanced question. Yeah. So So you know, the first fork in the road is when we say cannabis, there is legally speaking what is defined as hemp. And then there’s legally speaking what’s defined as marijuana. Now, we talk all day long about the fact that there’s no difference between those two points, that it’s purely an arbitrary line. But that that’s that aside. So, as I think anybody who owns a pet knows, hemp based CBD products for animals are everywhere, environment pet store, you know, you combine anywhere. That said, dependent depending on what state a veterinarian may may live in their Veterinary Medical Board may or may not have something to say about it. So for example, in California, the Veterinary Medical Board decided that they were going to go by the letter of the law, and the letter of the law technically does not allow for the sale of CBD for anyone, human or animal. It’s just something that that that the FDA just kind of looks the other way for. But the the Veterinary Medical Board decided since that was the case and that there was no there was no law in California specifically making it legal than it was thus illegal. And veterinary veterinarians were not then allowed to discuss, recommend or dispense even a hemp based product. Now that as, as I’m sure you’re very well aware, Gavin Newsom signed a bill. I don’t know month or two ago now that explicitly made hemp products legal in California. And that bill very specifically mentioned, products for pets. So, we and when I say we, I mean, my fellow members of the veterinary cannabis society, we’re actually in the process lobbying the Veterinary Medical Board to change their position statement. So now that it is legal in California, we would like the board to announce to veterinarians that they can recommend dispense, etc. Now, the other side of it the medical marijuana side, again, very, very variable depending on on where you live. So obviously, obviously marijuana is federally illegal, it is legal in many states. In fact, I think it’s not legal in more states than it’s not. And states have taken a varying approach. California has said, No, Colorado and Oregon has basically said, You know what, we’re not going to put a position out on this, but you’re a veterinarian, go practice responsibly, have a nice day. So if you’re a veterinarian in Colorado, or or, or Oregon, for example, you can talk to your clients and recommend medical marijuana, and there’s no problem at all. So it’s it’s super variable. This is part of why the veterinary cannabis society was was created, because of this lack of understanding and this lack of consistency, that veterinarians, in many cases really don’t know whether they’re coming or going.
John Malanca 16:24
I think a lot of doctors like that, too. You know, I work with a lot of patients, but also patients that have patients meaning their dogs, you know, their cats. Yeah. And, you know, and I said, Oh, cow, great. Have you had this conversation with your vet? And they said, Yeah, but he or she is not on board because of laws. They don’t know where the gray areas are not like yet. But here’s the thing that blows my mind. They have pet insurance, and they showed me the reimbursement of it says cannabis. Yeah, not hemp. Yeah, patent medicine, but cannabis on there, and they’re reimbursed so the pet insurance companies are reimbursing the parents. So the pet? Yes. the bet. They’re being slapped? Nope. You can’t do this.
Dr. Gary Richter 17:10
No, it’s a great well, and and to be clear, the only reason why that is the case is because the Veterinary Medical Board holds authority over me. If I’m not a veterinarian, and I’m telling people you know, or you know, so for example, the bud tender in the dispensary. All too often they’re giving out medical advice to pet owners, which clearly is not a good thing. But the Veterinary Medical Board holds no sway over that guy. Because he’s not licensed. It’s not it’s not a legal thing as much as it is a regulatory thing. Like, it’s not like they can put me in jail, but they can suspend my license, which is my livelihood. Yeah. And the problem from a veterinary perspective, which is so unfortunate is because because the the environment has been set up that is so, so untenable for veterinarians, most of them have decided that they’re not going to go through the trouble to educate themselves, about something that they can’t talk about anyway. So that way, when people come in, they’re just like, I don’t know, you know, I can’t talk about it, I don’t know anything about it. And you know, what’s gonna wind up happening is, is one day this switch is going to turn and we’re going to be able to talk about it and a whole bunch of veterinarians are going to get caught with their pants down, because they don’t know what to say.
John Malanca 18:32
Well, you have that with even MDS? Yeah, a lot of them don’t know, no know what to do, or say it’s not a one size fits all, that’s a frustrating thing. When I, you know, have a lot of patients come back when my doctor recommended this, I went down there and I had these six 810 products that they the gentleman he or she that, you know, sold me on. Got I was an ask you a question. Oh, is there a difference in a pet CBD versus a human CBD, besides a bacon flavor, which I’m seeing a lot of these bodies company because, you know, their their patients I talked to all the time, they said I just give my pet the same thing I do. But one drop compared to me doing a full dropper. And they send me videos, you know, and they sent me videos of their dog running and jumping in the pool. And they said, Oh my gosh, you know, and so is there a difference? Or is it just marketing? Like a lot of a lot of stuff is marketing into same product, different label on it?
Unknown Speaker 19:33
Yeah, this is an excellent question. And you know, I mean, as long as we’re talking about a product that is purely a hemp extract, and there’s nothing else extraneous added to it, then no, there’s no difference between the products. And I’ll tell you that. If you look at the research that’s out now, that has looked at the use of say CBD and dogs for arthritis for seizures, the dosages that are being published are in the ballpark of about a milligram of CBD per pound, twice a day. So if you have a 60 pound Labrador with arthritis, at least according to that research, you’re supposed to be giving 60 milligrams of CBD twice a day. Now you and I both know that that’s a boatload of CBD. And that’s an expensive dose of CBD. And, and, you know, on the one hand, even though the research says that it turns out that a lot of dogs will actually do well on significantly lower dosages. However, if you were sort of have a mind or your dog needed a dose that high, it would be very, very difficult for you to find a pet product that’s going to work because most of those pet products are maybe going to be somewhere between five and 15 milligrams per milliliter. So now all of a sudden, you’re talking about giving four milliliters to your dog twice a day, you’re gonna burn through a bottle in like three days. It’s just not it’s just not practical. So in those cases, it’s often beneficial for people to look for a really high quality human product. You know, there’s some out there that are, you know, as much as 60 milligrams per milliliter. So then you can wind up giving the same amount of CBD but you’re giving a much smaller volume of liquid. It’s more cost effective, it’s more practical from the dogs perspective. So I you know, I mean that the, the nut with cannabis, whether it’s CBD, THC or anything else, is the same thing as it is with any pharmaceutical. You have to know what you’re giving and how much you’re giving. And as long as you have that in mind, it’s fine.
John Malanca 21:45
Yeah. You mentioned CBD THC. And any other thing I was an asked you that question. Are you are you incorporating? Or have you heard of any other patients, given their their patients been in the pets, different cannabinoids, you know, CBD and CBG other things like that are helping humans for anxiety or sleep or inflammation?
Dr. Gary Richter 22:06
Yeah, you know, there are pet specific products out there now that that are CBG heavy. There’s one out there that I’m aware of that that contains CBN that’s being that’s being sort of marketed for anxiety, sleep, that sort of thing. So yeah, and you know, you know, couple that with, you know, with terpene profiles, you know, if you know what to do with terpenes, you can really enhance the efficacy of your cannabinoids. Yeah. So that’s the cool thing about about cannabis as a medicine is it’s not a it’s not a one dimensional thing. It’s not like when I grabbed that bottle of amoxicillin of my off my pharmacy shelf, there’s only one active compound in that cannabis is is hundreds of compounds. And if you know how to blend them properly, you can do all kinds of amazing things.
John Malanca 22:59
Yeah. You know, you made a good point about blending, can you throw the one thing I always share with everyone is cannabis and not a one size fits all. Unfortunately, it doesn’t work for everyone. And more is not always better. And so what happens when you hear these stories? I mean, I remember in high school you hear these like, Oh, dude, my dog ate my gummy bear. And now and I’m, you know, he stone in the corner in there peeing, you know, and shaking and, and I know, you must receive these patients that come in and Oh, sure. come into your office. And can you share some of those stories and warnings and and what they can do to to help because you hear these all the time that my dog unfortunately got a hold of my stash if you want to say,
Dr. Gary Richter 23:45
yeah, yeah. And and, you know, that’s, that’s something that that we have seen become more and more prevalent, the more the more you know, recreational cannabis is is a thing. You know, nine times out of 10 more than nine times out of 10. When a dog gets gets intoxicated from THC, it’s because they ate the owners animals, they the cookie, they the brownie, whatever it may be. I mean, occasionally a dog will eat a bag of flour, but not not often, usually as the animals that they’ve eaten. Interesting fact is that and you know not to get into too much specific detail. But dogs have a much higher concentration of CB one receptors in their brainstem. And what that means is that dogs are actually more susceptible to THC intoxication than our people. And all of those signs that you were describing are signs of THC intoxication, lack of coordination, you know, urinating sort of cognitively being out of it. You know, anytime you Do you see anything like that? It is something that you want to take that dog to a veterinarian for. You know, if I’m being honest fatalities from THC ingestion in dogs are exceedingly rare. It’s not something that happens very often. But a lot of times, they really could use some supportive care. I mean, if the dog is is so intoxicated, that they can’t eat or they can’t drink, they’re going to need fluids, they’re going to need some support, so they don’t get dehydrated. The only dog that I have ever personally seen die from THC intoxication was a dog that ate a bunch of animals. The owner waited 24 hours before bringing them in. And what happened was, is that dog was so out of it, that he had was basically unconscious, and he vomited and aspirated the vomit into his lungs, and he wound up dying from that. So it is possible for an animal to die from THC intoxication. Again, it’s rare, but nonetheless, even if it’s not fatal, you know, I mean, anybody who has ever made the mistake of eating one too many animals knows that that is not really a good time. Yeah. And, and you know, what, don’t make your dog suffer through that. Both from the standpoint of like, put your stuff somewhere where the dogs not going to get at it. But if they do, take them in and get them treated, so at least you know, they’re not getting dehydrated and feeling even more miserable. Yeah. And the one thing I’ll add to that is no veterinarian gives a damn about the details of how it happened. Nobody’s getting in trouble. Thank you. Nobody’s nobody’s calling the cops nobody’s getting in trouble. Maybe if it’s a kid, they’re in trouble with their parents. But outside of that, nobody you know, nobody cares. We just want the dog to get better.
John Malanca 26:58
The animal animal you work with a cashier?
Dr. Gary Richter 27:01
Of course, yeah. Although I say dogs because cats are usually smart enough not to eat. It’s really rare that you would see a cat voluntarily eat, you know, they don’t really have a taste for sweets, so so they’re not going to eat the brownie.
John Malanca 27:17
Well, we’ve used it on our cat with success and our dog for success as well. And so it’s nice to see that can you share some of your success stories and what you’ve seen our cat, of course, had cancer, our dogs, it was more of anxiety as they got older. And and so you know, we’d give them something nothing that you can see a difference of their mood, but you just saw that it was balanced, as well as it can you talk about the type of ingestion the modalities, but also you being an acupuncturist, chiropractic as well, you know, I’m a big fan of pressure points in massage, and which I have massage their dog as well, which is to with a topical, and they have found, you know, calming feelings. So can you share some of those? Yeah,
Dr. Gary Richter 28:04
absolutely. So, so, you know, obviously, earlier we had that whole discussion about integrative medicine. So, so, you know, it is it is a very rare case that I would have a patient that’s on cannabis and nothing else. Because usually it’s going to be you know, depending on what’s wrong with them, they may be on other herbs, they may be getting Western meds, acupuncture, what have you. So having said that, you know, I’ve had a lot of patients over the years on the that are on cannabis. You know, cancer is a big reason. You know, it’s, I find value in that both from a palliative sense in it from the perspective of it helps alleviate pain, it can help support their appetite, just generally help them feel better. But I will also say that a lot of these patients go way longer than they were expected to, you know, I mean, for anybody who’s ever been to an oncologist, whether it’s human or Veterinary Oncologist speaking statistics, that’s their language, they say, well, for this diagnosis, the average survival time is six to 12 months or whatever it may be. So I mean, anybody that goes the oncologist is going to get that sort of time window. It is very, very common for us to have these patients go far beyond the longer end of the oncologist estimation. You know, and switching gears a little bit. arthritis or other forms of pain cannabis can be great for that. You know, and you know, since generally speaking with arthritis, you’re talking about older dogs. Just like older people, there’s rarely just one thing wrong. So you know, you put a dog an old arthritic dog on on cannabis, and they’re not only is there pain Go away. But a lot of times, they’re just they’re sort of cognitively and emotionally a little bit more settled, they’re less anxious, they’re more likely to want to get up and exercise and do things. And you know, I mean, just like with old people staying active, and you know, and staying engaged is is the key to staying alive. And the second you have a dog or a person that functionally gives up and says, I’m just gonna lay here. It’s the clock is ticking. Yeah, so So anything that you can do in that regards, is a plus, certainly cannabis is on that list. The other nice thing about cannabis as well as many other sort of natural therapies is there are adults out there that cannot tolerate the pharmaceuticals, whether it’s because it causes GI upset or there’s liver problem or a kidney problem, it may be that you can’t put them on the pharmaceuticals that in a perfect world you might like to and cannabis becomes a really, really viable option. And again, that could mean a hemp a CBD product. It could mean a higher THC product. It’s just a function of appropriate dose.
John Malanca 31:10
So an appropriate appropriate dose, are you finding more success? Because I see there’s so many products out there just like there is in the human market coming into the pet market now that they have biscuits. gummies tinctures, what are you seeing in your practice that you have seen success because a lot of dogs have arthritis and I want to follow that up with if nothing is wrong with your dog, can you start taking these as health and wellness for like you and I taking vitamins especially?
Dr. Gary Richter 31:36
Sure so so as far as like product formats go. To me, if you’re going to look at cannabis as medicine, I feel like from a dog’s perspective, the most viable way to do that is with a liquid. So usually a liquid isn’t is an extract that’s in some carrier oil, whether it’s coconut, MCT, oil, fish oil, whatever it may be. I think when you’re giving if you’re giving like treats, you wind up with that same issue we were talking about before is that it’s very frequently difficult to get to a therapeutic dose, unless you’re going to give them like 10 treats a day, which again, a they’re going to gain weight and be it’s just not financially practical. So I think liquids are probably the way to go. If we’re talking about medical use, you know, topicals, there is a place for topicals
John Malanca 32:35
sorry, with with liquid for people who say, Well, I can’t put the dropper, I should put it in the applesauce, put it in this in here she’s in the pet food
Dr. Gary Richter 32:44
or put it in their food. And that comes back to the discussion we were having earlier about. If you get a product that that is concentrated enough, you may only have to give several drops. So then it becomes a real easy thing. I mean, sometimes with cats all out people, I’ll tell him just put the drop on your finger and just rub it on their gums and you’re done. You don’t have to like wrench open their mouth and get something in there, which they’re going to hate you for. So yeah, and then, you know, from a topical perspective, you know, There absolutely are cannabinoid receptors in the skin and the hair follicles we know this. I have used topicals on myself, and there’s absolutely no question that they work for pain. The tricky bit with with with dogs and cats number one, obviously for so sometimes getting skin contact can be a little bit of a challenge. And the other thing is, is classically, if you put anything topical on a dog or a cat, the first thing they’re going to try and do is lick it off, which is not necessarily the end of the world if you’re talking about a CBD product. But if you’re talking about something that has a significant amount of THC in it, you got to be careful because that that is potentially a
Unknown Speaker 33:57
route to problems. Same thing for humans, right?
Unknown Speaker 34:02
Yeah, yeah, you know, try not to lick off that. That Rick Simpson oil you just put on your skin? Yeah, probably not your best plan. You asked me another question about
Unknown Speaker 34:11
about wellness kit, you know for Oh yes, a relative?
Dr. Gary Richter 34:15
That’s a great question. Um, and I think that that question is really a question about endocannabinoid tone and balance. And I think the reality is, we don’t know. Because we don’t, we don’t have any kind of objective way to measure a patient’s endocannabinoid tone. So you know, it’s hard to say like, could they benefit from say, more Ananda mine or to ag and can we make that happen? You know, by giving by giving CBD or THC or something? I mean, until we can actually figure out how those scales balance. I don’t know that we’re actually gonna know Whether or not that’s a beneficial thing. I don’t think that there’s probably any harm done in giving low doses of, you know, particularly CBD. But but there’s certainly no no hard evidence out there about if there’s a benefit,
John Malanca 35:14
even though like us humans, then being animals with a vertebrae and and having an endocannabinoid system, you’re not you’re not seeing the benefits on that as well, I guess. I mean, you’re you’re dealing with more pets than I
Dr. Gary Richter 35:27
am. Yeah, I mean, I think it’s very, I think it’s very hard to say if we’re, you know, for talking about, like, what people might refer to as micro dosing. So if we’re talking about low doses, you know, when you’re, when you’re dealing with a nonverbal patient, often the subtleties are lost. Yeah. So like, I don’t know, if that dog, you know, maybe feel slightly better than they did yesterday. There’s, it’s kind of hard to tell. So unless there’s some sort of dramatic effects. It’s tricky.
John Malanca 36:00
Gotcha. Well, I know you have another call here. But I have a couple questions coming here to follow here. Where do you see the future of this plant based medicine being incorporated in veterinary medicine?
Dr. Gary Richter 36:14
Cannabis wise, and his wife and his wife? Yeah, um, I think the future is, number one, ultimately, this will all be federally legal. I think the horses out of the barn, it just, it’s just a matter of time, until there’s the political will to make it happen. And the second that that happens, you’re going to wind up with a whole bunch of pharmaceutical companies getting in the game, and then you’re going to have, then you’re going to have FDA approved cannabis products. Much like currently we have Epidiolex. But now you’re gonna have like a whole host of them. And you know what, ultimately, that’s, that’s good news, bad news. You know, the fact that Pharma is going to dump billions into research is great. The fact that they may lose sight of the entourage effect and the benefits of whole plant medicine is probably an unavoidable consequence. But, but we’ll have that information. So that so that we’ll probably be able to do a better job with our whole plant medicines, because we’ll know more about appropriate dosing.
John Malanca 37:22
You mentioned the horse out of the bag, and I have a dear friend that she has a she’s a doctor, she also not a vet, but a doctor, and she has an equine therapy ranch in Northern California and one of her and she specializes in children that have trauma. Okay. And so one of her staff, I mean, he’s, you know, he’s runs the play, started having head shakes. And they thought in the vet said, you may want to put her down, and she’s like, and I said, you may want to try cannabis. And so she did all the calculations that you’re talking pound dosage. And this horse could run with no rains, having the kid either full on it, trot with it, walk with it, slow run in this course, is always there. And they thought, oh my gosh, we’re gonna have to pull this horse out of out of being a major help for these children. Anyway, instant when I say instant, like one to two. I guess dosing treatments, the shaking stop the horses back to normal. And so, you know, I’ve seen this plant work on humans. Not all the time. But I’ve seen it work on animals, not all the time. And so you know, give it a try and ask, ask your vet, Dr. Richter is is reachable, he’s approachable. And I know you being highlighted on national TV shows that people are coming to you from across the country as well. Is that correct? It is
Dr. Gary Richter 38:58
although it’s worth saying that. Legally speaking, I cannot provide medical guidance for an animal I have not physically examined. Gotcha. Okay. So they’re, you know, there’s that aspect of things, but certainly if people want to learn more about cannabis in general for animals, I would absolutely direct them towards the veterinary cannabis society, which is VCs dot pet. So super easy.
John Malanca 39:28
And I’ll put that and you also have some books. So I’m going to read these off. These are books Dr. Richter has written I use that book Scuse me the ultimate pet health guide and that’s available on Amazon, the pet, pet health guide, longevity for pets, calm holistic vet care.com and also the ultimate pet nutrition.com. And that’s for food Correct.
Unknown Speaker 39:52
Ultimate pet nutrition is food and supplements. Yeah.
John Malanca 39:55
And but non non cannabis, non cannabis cannabis and then the veterinary cannabis society with VCs dot pet not com but pet is is Dr. Richter’s website, which he is a founding member of as well and but I’ll put all those up on the site as well. Do you have any closing first off thank you very much for coming on again and being available. Just on a phone call. Hey, would you do this? Yeah, I’d love to do so. Thank you for being open question. I get a lot of questions about about this and who better tech ask you do you have any closing words for our pet owners?
Dr. Gary Richter 40:30
Oh, you know what, I guess I would I would wrap things up with with saying that you know, the single best thing that you can do for your pet is to be proactive with their healthcare you know and and find find a veterinarian who’s whose medical philosophy matches with your own you know, and and be proactive so, you know, I mean, don’t wait till things are you know, the wheels are falling off to do something. Pets are family and in many ways they give us more love than we will ever get from a human so so we we need to honor them for that.
John Malanca 41:12
So don’t wait don’t wait till it’s too late in the same thing with everyone’s health. Don’t wait till it’s too late. You know, and and I always share and this is a great point you brought up for humans. Ask the question about cannabis and not illegal tastic question. I don’t know if it’s the same in veterinary, but don’t be afraid if they don’t know it. In human with doctors, ask them if they can refer you and the same thing with with veterinary medicine. If your doctor does not know anything about cannabis incorporating cannabis or is not on board, asked him if he or she if they can recommend another vet that would that is well versed and open minded and if not, you have Dr. Garry Richter here. And so, Dr. Garry, I appreciate being open and coming back on the show. And thank you for everything you do and wishing you a blessed day and to all you pet owners wishing you all a healthy and happy pet day as well. And we’ll see you soon. Thank you. I love that. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. John Malanca with United patient group, be informed and be well and we’ll see you soon. Take care. Bye