Jake Felice, ND gives a fascinating look into the endocannabinoid system and its historical development in all animals except insects.  John Malanca and Dr. Felice discuss single molecule treatment and its flaws, whole plant medicine, and specific routes of administration.  Watch this special podcast as Dr. Jake Felice uses many examples to dissect the truth about Cannabis, CBD, THC and more.

Jake Felice, ND has both a broad and yet detailed understanding of plant medicine most notably cannabis.  Through his consulting he helps patients utilize Cannabis to its fullest, thus restoring balance and reducing inflammation.

Inflammation, the major source of all illness, has increased as we have become victims of a chemicalized world.  As we have moved toward ingesting fast food, processed meats and increased sugars all while decreasing our use of natural treatments, we have become a sicker society.  In our stressed out COVID world, we need to look at balance, and the balance discussed by Dr. Felice is cannabis, CBD and THC and the Endocannabinoid System.

Find out why this Naturopathic Doctor respects plants and their role in health.  Listen in as to why he no longer recommends cannabis for patients….it’s not what you may think!


Illness, Inflammation, and the Endocannabinoid System; the “Bricks and Mortar” of Health

John Malanca 0:04
Welcome back, everybody. This is John Malanca. With United Patients Group Be Informed. Be Well. Today’s special guest, Dr. Jake Felice. We’ve worked together on a few other podcasts. And so welcome back, Jake, how you doing?

Dr Jake Felice 0:17
I’m great, john, it’s wonderful to be here with you. Again, I

John Malanca 0:20
love the brick house behind you. Ah, it’s the power of technology that we’re able to put whatever we want behind us, but my hair is like this and you’d see you

Unknown Speaker 0:31

John Malanca 0:32
for a second. So glad to have you on. Let’s let’s talk about the endocannabinoid system. And I have this you know, you know, I know a lot of people are hearing about it. So let me just do a little little intro about it. And so so for our audience, you know that there are 12 different systems in your body that each play an important role some of you may be very familiar with and others not so much. So you probably familiar with the nervous system, the muscular system reproductive system, but have you ever heard of our endocannabinoid system? As mentioned, I have Dr. Jake Felice and we’re gonna talk about the endocannabinoid system. Jake’s background, he’s a natural naturopath, which I’m a big fan of I shared with many of you on the show before, that’s who my doctors are not your past and kryptonite, you know, been with a naturopathic doctor for the last 10 years. And, and so I love love your mindset when it comes to medicine. But you’re a cannabis educator clinician, whose vision is to advocate excuse me advanced the science and practical application of medical cannabis for medical and recreational markets around the world. Jake provides world class hemp and cannabis education experiences by speaking authentically about hemp and cannabis. He is the founder of cannabis matrix consulting advises dietary dietary supplement and cannabis companies regarding optimal product development. And so welcome back. Jake, how are you doing?

Dr Jake Felice 1:54
I it’s just really wonderful to be here. Talking about one of my favorite things to talk about. I’m good, john. Thanks. So

John Malanca 2:01
let’s get on it. I mean, you know, it’s not discussed maybe now, but it has had not been discussed in medical schools. And so a lot of the medical professionals I have I always ask is, was it discussed in medical school? And you were there? And what’s your answer to that one,

Dr Jake Felice 2:18
too, to my greatest recollection, it was not. Granted, I was in medical school, I graduated in 2003 from Bastyr University, it may have been mentioned one or two times, but it is not certainly something that stuck with me. Nor was it presented as something that is profound as we now know it to be meaning. It’s the it’s the number one receptor system in our nervous system in the human human nervous system. And at any one given point in time, it is massively controlling a huge amount of biologic information across all of the systems that you just talked about. And I also like to throw in one more, that’s not in a lot of the recent textbooks. But if you Google that, that is the connective tissue system or interstitial system, which is now considered to be a new organ system largely responsible for inflammatory processes, immune processes that are happening in the body. We can talk about that, as well.

John Malanca 3:27
Good. So I like you. I’m a big storyteller. And so you know, you’ve had some great conversations, you’re, you’re a great storyteller to get to get the visual of it going from point A to point B and what it does, and you had a, you know, I hope you can use that same analogy of when you’re talking about how Wi Fi systems work out?

Dr Jake Felice 3:46
Sure. Sure. Well, I’ve got I’ve got a virtual brick wall behind me, okay, I’m not a real one. But you can use that as a visual and think of the bricks as the cells. So I’ll throw it right back at the audience. What what’s holding this virtual wall together? Is it the bricks? And I’ll be I’ll keep it simple. The answer is no, it’s the mortar that is holding the bricks together. That’s akin to the connective tissue. In our blood plasma is considered connective tissue. And if the bricks are the cells, the mortar is the connective tissue, it forms this vast network that literally interconnects all of the cells in our body and provides a medium of communication between different cells. It’s the main the vast majority of cell communication is happening in the interstitial space. For example, the synapse between our brain cells is his connective tissue space, and it’s where the vast majority of the immune and inflammatory processes occur on and what’s really exciting about the endocannabinoid system is that we have an ability to influence This system that literally holds us together and keeps our biologic communication functioning optimally. So in a sense, we can do some inner engineering. This system responds very well to cannabis responds very well to dietary factors such as healthy fats that are in salmon, Coldwater fish omega three, as you probably heard of responds fantastically to acupuncture, chiropractic manipulation. There’s even a study about women singing when we sing it makes us feel good, does it not at least when nobody’s listening? And I’m saying I feel really good. So, so the

John Malanca 5:42
truth, my brother, my brother’s a musician, and I had a girlfriend say, you sound great, but you don’t sound like your brother. I’m like, brother.

Dr Jake Felice 5:52
Yeah, so so these things that typically make us feel good, have a positive influence on this connective tissue and endocannabinoid system. And one of the most exciting things about it for me has been the study of the plants, and how they can positively impact us. That means that it gives us an ability to help support the systems that are literally holding us together.

John Malanca 6:25
It’s a great point and the endocannabinoid. It’s a recent system that had been discovered. And of course, we’ve had it forever. But it’s recently discovered. And they should say we’ve only mammals, mammals that haven’t been with a vertebrate, and now they’re saying, jellyfish? Are you hearing mammals? Yes.

Dr Jake Felice 6:43
primitive organisms such as jellyfish, all animals, except for insects have that we know of have this system. It is widespread throughout biology. And one of the stories is how life 600 million years ago when there was water all over the planet, the primordial ocean, no land had popped up yet, Mount Everest was not even on the radar. So and all cells were single celled organisms. And yet here we are, me and you talking we have bodies we have brains. And biologically, the the programs the software programs that biology uses to make and manufacture itself occurred evolutionarily for various reasons, bodies have certain advantages that single cells don’t, for example, we have some resilience against our environment, you can turn down the heat in here, it can cool off and we can produce our own heat. So having a body allows us some degree of resilience against the, the the, the universe, which is a very hostile place, or can be a very hostile place to life. So in order for cells to form bodies, they had to develop a way to communicate with each other. How do cells talk to each other, and that’s when the first tissue develop, which is connective tissue, the very first evolutionary tissue. Also, a body needs a blueprint on how to build itself. So how does a stem cell turn into a neuron for example, there’s an elaborate dance, biochemical dance that goes on, that determines how stem cells will grow and mature into the different types of cells that we have. Also, when you have a body, you need to have an alert mechanism that says, hey, we have an injury down on toe number five, Andrey down on toe number five, let’s mobilize the resources. And I say that tongue in cheek, but literally, repair processes of the body are necessary for our survival. And those programs developed evolutionarily, and the endocannabinoid system is involved in all of that. And so not only is there a necessity to identify the problem, but then to gather the biologic resources necessary to repair the organism. And the endocannabinoid system does all of these things. And for the first time, in a long time in medicine, we now have a system that not only it’s called a homeostatic system, and you can google homeostasis, how the body maintains health and hold itself together. That’s literally what this system does. And it has been in the design process for 600 million years. So there’s been a lot of time off for some very sophisticated development

John Malanca 9:49
with Joe. Yeah, and you mentioned it’s holding it all together, but it’s also bringing the body back to balance. And that’s correct.

Dr Jake Felice 9:57
Yes. Yes. So when you’re Yeah. So when the When the system detects an imbalance, it immediately acts on whatever level that may be. So these cannabinoid receptors that we have, are, are not behaving like classic receptor systems that we typically think of in terms of biochemistry or pharmacology. Because these receptors think of a catcher’s mitt on the outside of a cell. A receipt receptor is something that literally receives information, it receives a biologic molecule that then creates a downstream effect in the physiology. These uh, these mechanisms that we have, can be positively influenced by cannabis CBD on whole plant cannabis, as well as the dietary and lifestyle features. So

John Malanca 10:53
yeah, I would do the cliff note version of this. You know, the endocannabinoid system. What is it craving? It’s craving cannabinoids to bring it bring it back to balance but you there’s also something called Endocannabinoid deficiency not having enough. Can you talk about that?

Dr Jake Felice 11:07
Sure. So So one of the ways to think about this system is that it’s a biologic network, I call it the Internet of the body. But it is an information processing network. That is hardwired, you and I have a pretty good connection on internet connection today. As far as I can tell, no fuzziness. Nothing’s cutting in and out. Biologically, when we’re healthy, we have a good functioning internet. But all of a sudden, if something goes awry, that a communication system can be disrupted is like the internet going slow. All of a sudden, you can upload videos or download videos. So if you are a single cell or a tissue or even an organ system, and you are experiencing challenges to the balance of your health and physiology, but the disruption of this communication system can be really bad because it can for example, prevent the immune system from talking with the nervous system because there’s too much static in the communication network in the endocannabinoid system. So we call that when when the internet is down or not working well in the body. We call that Endocannabinoid Deficiency Syndrome because the deficiency is in the endocannabinoid system. And how does that present? Well, if you disrupt a communication system, you disrupt all of the systems of physiology that you just talked about. And so for example, if I mentioned if the nervous system is unable to communicate with the immune system over time that can problems can develop.

John Malanca 12:52
So right now, especially right now, what we’re all going through, you know, this pandemic, not only here in the US, but globally, immune systems are down there not getting outside people are getting outside and having interaction with with friends and family which can bring up immune system of be happy and energized, a hug, but also getting out and getting going out for a run or a ride. You know, sometimes the immune system is down and so can you share how this endocannabinoid system helps our immune system bring it sure everything is connected to your internet description as well.

Dr Jake Felice 13:31
Excellent. Well, if we define stress is any demand biologic demand on the physiology for change, the body has to manage change and to a degree we can call that stress. There are lots of human studies now showing correlations between my stress levels on or anyone stress levels and the levels of the endocannabinoid molecules in the body so that we know that when the body is stressed, in an ideal situation, this system becomes activated in a less than ideal situation, because the communication is not happening, the reactivity may not be as robust as is ideal. So there are studies for example, self reported stress and human correlate to endocannabinoids levels, when we stress humans out, the cortisol level re raise, and we know that the ECS does not function as well. The corollary that I think is important that you mentioned is we all have so much stress going on in our life. This system gives us a way that we can at least partially manage our stress, our anxiety, folks are having sleepless nights it can help with that. And it gives us also a tool to address some of the most what I’ll say mild to moderate pain issues that can happen if you’re a weekend warrior going out and overdoing it on the weekends. gives us a really good way to help the body balance itself. And it does this primarily through enhancing the communication processes between ourselves.

John Malanca 15:13
So, and this affects all of us at all all age levels. Yes,

Dr Jake Felice 15:19
it does it. However as we age, the robustness of the endocannabinoid system becomes compromised as so many things do. So I think that for issues of aging, this might also be a very important system, just in terms of helping us maintain a good healthy, good, healthy life for as many years as we can.

John Malanca 15:45
Do you recommend any type of cannabis when I say any type of cannabis, some states have all the cannabinoids, some are. Or I’ll say forced force is not the right word. But laws are not having letting them have access. And so maybe CBD, which we’re seeing pop up everywhere nowadays, is the only is the only cannabinoid that they have access to do you recommend this? that everyone should take this as the daily vitamin and daily supplement? I

Dr Jake Felice 16:16
don’t, I don’t, I personally don’t see a need for it for the vast majority of people today, daily, however, to manage the ups and downs of stress. Absolutely. If you haven’t been sleeping in a while it can help improve restful sleep on a personal story. My mom had been having trouble sleeping. She is a retired nurse, somewhat skeptical. Her husband had passed several years ago and she’s having sleepless nights. Our first night with CBD, she woke up and said that was the best sleep I’ve had since my husband died. Um, so I think that the thing that folks need to realize is you may say, for example, be taking it for one thing, but it can also benefit you in other areas. So for example, somebody with a sore shoulder may be taking it for the pain. But there may be some residual benefits such as helping with their sleep, for example, or helping with anxiety. Folks with cancer, I never say that cannabis can cure cancer. But it certainly I think we can make claims based on scientific literature now that it helps alleviate some of the symptoms, some of the pain helps with nausea, vomiting, or the topical products can be very good for the radiation burns from radiation treatment. So it gives folks a lot of tools, but also on the plus side, it can help maintain health of other good functioning systems along with a concomitant disease process. So it may or may not be helpful for the bone pain and cancer. A lot of the times it is thankfully but not always. But it could certainly have other beneficial effects. For people that are unintended, one of them being sleep. And you had mentioned products, I feel that there’s a lot of misinformation about CBD. CBD is the name of a molecule, but it works better when it comes with the whole entire plant. So all of these molecules work together so that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts. It’s called botanical synergy. If you read in the literature, you’ll see that not a lot on the mechanisms of synergy. But I will be coming out with a paper on this synergy the molecules can do a few things. One, they can make the medicine have better positive effects. We know this from CBD studies. For example, CBD for pain tends to work better when there’s a little bit of THC or other terpene molecules together. It can reduce negative side effects such as a short term memory loss that’s associated with THC. Now a lot of people don’t want to take THC but there are other cannabinoids, such as CBG or CBN, which can be very good for sleep. So utilizing the whole plant, I think, is a really good strategy. And the studies are just really pretty clear that the whole plant is outperforming the single molecule across a large number of studies Now

John Malanca 19:39
you mentioned products and we can go down a whole whole other discussion on products you know, I always recommend Make sure your products are tested. You know when I take tested not you the consumer, it’s you The consumer purchasing from that location. They should have test results. I don’t have any boxes near me but nowadays Then the new product lines have a QR code with different bands

Dr Jake Felice 20:04
in it, and it will take you there. Yep, that’s a great, that’s a great tip. Yeah, laboratory analysis is good. And what is the best in my opinion is third party independently tested as well. So not only is a good company doing internal tests, they are also sending it out to a contracted lab for publishing purposes. And then they will get a third opinion and when all of those line up we have a much better indication that there is a good product and there have been study after study out now what is on your label may not even actually be what’s in the bottle as an industry, we have to have a commitment to quality and you’re absolutely right john Thoreau and and good testing on not just for THC and CBD levels, but for other cannabinoids and terpenes as well, plus third party independent tests so that nobody can say oh, this lab has a financial interest in kind of popping are propping those numbers up a third party test is beneficial that

John Malanca 21:08
way you win credit, I started united patient back in 2011. You know, we had a bunch of companies that tend to miss advertise, and there’s a very well known company that made it to times top influential cannabis companies. And we received their product and their products. The labeling, one said nutritional value 127% I asked him I said how do you get 127% and they laughed they said well, no one’s no one will notice. And I said well, we do you know and our our name and people come to us and say Who do you Who do you recommend? And they said well we can advertise you? And I said then don’t advertise you know and you know so that’s the type of thing that’s that scares me about this industry and you so you are so correct and don’t always believe what’s on it on the piano and I would say judge a book by its cover we all do it you know I mean I can’t tell you how many times I’ve actually gone into a bookstore and said Oh, that’s a beautiful book book cover you know if you want to take it like that and I purchased that book you see it when wine labels you know and and you know you see it in print everything

Dr Jake Felice 22:14
doesn’t fancy labels restaurant

John Malanca 22:17
I mean the word you know but so make sure what’s on that label is on the inside and if they don’t do not have that sound like a broken record probably do a lot of our followers who’ve been following following us for a while if they don’t have a phone number or an email or test results which happens on a lot of these companies go find another another another product because they’re out you

Dr Jake Felice 22:40
don’t know what you’re paying for if you if you don’t know what’s in it, you can’t know what you’re paying for.

John Malanca 22:47
The product thing I was actually before I went into that site with the product I was going I was originally thinking about products for bringing the body back to homeostasis. Brianna phenomena says are you is there certain things that smoking inhalation versus tinctures versus topicals I know you mentioned that about your mom and sleep I think it’s wonderful when current folks live in a retirement community and as you know people pass on as you and I both experience in life but we’ve had resin the residents that have contacted you know what you allowed me to get out of my room or my partner house to come back and see my friends again because I’ve won Sleep my depression has helped me because of my loved ones passion you know and they would share these stories and you know after living it with krynn passing you know it you know my sleep was off I mean time when you talked about your mom losing her husband shoot I’d go to bed I was up to three 510 times a night no sleep I was in a zombie zombie state you know my dreams were max my natural passing keep an eye on that man you know and I just I feel good but you’re off

Dr Jake Felice 24:09
and we are a psycho Soma we are a mind body and stress especially undue levels of negative stress will prove can profoundly affect physiology and you can literally think yourself into a sickness I’m from excess worry a lack of sleep etc etc. Um and very interestingly in my in my humble opinion, the corollary is not necessarily true once a pathology has developed. You may not you may have thought yourself into that but we you may not be able to think yourself out of that. Hopefully sometimes you can and a good mental attitude is always good. But that is when medicine and medical care is required. So much Have living a good long healthy life involves in maintaining what we’ve already got, and you can still be sick and get sicker. So maintaining your current level of health, I think is a very high priority, especially in this day and age. And I think in my opinion, obviously, I went into this industry for a reason. But I think health is one of the most important assets that we have. And arguably, if you lose it, you can’t do anything even enjoying life. And the opposite is true. So I’ve got a few things that I want to say too. But the opposite is true is when we are in a good state, when we are relaxed, when we are peaceful, happy, joyful, we perform better work doesn’t feel like work, work can be enjoyable, when we are good and healthy in our minds and in our bodies. And this system does give us a way that we can literally tweak and do some inner engineering, to maintain the robustness of the communication processes. And because what is a healthy body, a healthy body is a body that is free of pain, and it feels good to be in. Um, we shouldn’t be accepting that as an ideal that should be our baseline, in my opinion. So

John Malanca 26:23
you mentioned you know, knock on wood, you know, I made it through cringe diagnosis or illness. For her battle, her passing and they agree, you know, knock on wood, I never got sick.

Dr Jake Felice 26:42
And yeah, you know, and I went out, I made sure I could have gone downhill, you could have torpedoed and avoid anyways. And in that is a testament probably to your self care, I would imagine and help from others,

John Malanca 27:01
help from others, my biking, you know, I’d get on my bike and blaming, you know, I get on that bike and be up in the mountains or on a straight away road and just have my music on and just think and cry and, you know, and just scratch my head, like, what the hell did how did what happened? You know, that’s the one part of life I’d understand is, you live here, you’re here such a short time. And then someone that you know, my wife, you know, how did she pass? And I still question that, and this is coming up to three years. I’m just blown away. That’s gonna be three years, wow, me up here. And she was someone who lived a healthy life, you know, and so. So for our listeners, you know, don’t take life for granted don’t take relationships for granted. You know, one minute life can change in

Dr Jake Felice 27:46
every, every holiday season. There are folks that were not are not with us anymore. Yeah.

John Malanca 27:53
Yeah. But, hey, I thought you know, thank you for our audience. You know, I always talk about Curran. And, you know, I had Dr. Hogarth, on the show the other day, and he said, you know, it’s very obvious how much you you you love your wife and you so thanks for sharing that story. So and I’ve had a lot of our followers who have followed trendline for years too, and just said, you know, I’m still blown away or I lost my husband lost my spouse and it’s a tough one. So anyway, so I send blessings, God, anyone is going through something as awful this but also send blessings all the people have wonderful relationships, and enjoy because life like and life can change in an instant. Let’s talk about the endocannabinoid system again. Sorry about that. Are there certain products Joe is going to go there or do you find bringing your body back to balance with a tincture is better than via smoke? smokeable vaporisation

Dr Jake Felice 28:51
smell? Good question. I think that just real quickly, three pillars of natural health, okay, you’ve got to feed the organism, well, good, healthy diet. You need to properly exercise and move the physiology. So exercise, so diet and exercise. And of course sleep so you have to feed it, you have to repair it, and you have to move it. So So when those three are being challenged, meaning I’m eating well, on getting good sleep. my diet has been pretty good, but I still am feeling a little bit imbalanced. That might be a really good time to try some of the CBD oriented products. In terms of the ways to take them the body, there are advantages and disadvantages to each of them. If you are taking it for sleep, I would recommend Using an edible, if your product has THC in it, I would recommend having no having a very low dose if you are a newbie and a beginner because that’s one of the ways more so even than inhalation the edible of THC can create situations where some people don’t feel well, very well

John Malanca 30:21

Dr Jake Felice 30:22
But for things like pain or itch, even insect bites, sunburn, I think topicals can be very good. And if you do have pain, I do recommend combining an oral or an inhalation product with a topical so using the topical plus another method for CBD oriented products, I think edibles are fine. There are some conditions on the THC side, such as with migraine headache, where some many folks with migraine will get something called a program where you know that it’s not headaches, not here but it’s coming I can see bright lights or I just get a sense that that the migraine is coming. Sometimes you get 20 3040 minutes. Notice that is not enough time a lot of times to take an edible product so an inhalation or an oral mucosal absorption can be beneficial because you get a quicker

John Malanca 31:28

Dr Jake Felice 31:30
Yes you get a quicker onset and the the cannabinoids hit the bloodstream much faster.

John Malanca 31:36
Gotcha. Can I can I and maybe I misunderstand when you’re saying edibles Are you including tinctures in there because I’ve had so

Dr Jake Felice 31:44
many correct okay well the liquids which we drink, okay, anything that goes into the mouth and is is taken into the stomach, I consider an edible. So yes, a tincture can be an edible. You can also put a tincture in a spray bottle and you can use it as a topical. So teachers are very versatile. You can even take a tincture and put it in some of your favorite cream and then all of a sudden you have a topic

John Malanca 32:09
that I had Dr. Day said what are you doing your face and I said actually, you know it, I use a cannabis product and my patients there are some great cannabis products.

Dr Jake Felice 32:17
There’s some good studies on on some of the connective tissue cells that are involved in laying down collagen and preventing there’s they’re not clinical studies but but showing that CBD actually helps these cells that repair our skin. If you take a take a credit card and you you know you smile, frown, smile, frown, smile, frown, smile frown, you’re going to get lines in the credit card. Some of these some of these studies show that the cells that the topicals can affect really help with the connective tissue modeling. Um, and so I think it’s a good idea. Also good studies on CBD and acne for example. I’m including in humans.

John Malanca 33:11
Yeah, I earlier when I was chuckling about the edible portion it wasn’t. I was I was chuckling because you have a lot of and I’m glad that’s why I was asking you is edible. Both an edible like a cookie brownie as well as a tincture because you know, we have a lot of patients that have called us senior citizens so they’ll go down there and get a beautiful little brownie bite or chocolate chip cookie man How can this thing be so powerful and they eat it? Oh, it’s delicious. Let’s do another one.

Dr Jake Felice 33:40
Oh, that’s the amount again is where I have cotton also with CBD products it can in the daytime it can make you overly sleepy. Now at night that might be what you want but that’s certainly not what most of us want in the daytime and I have a friend who calls them CBD zombies people who’ve had too much CBD and they’re just seem a little bit CB too much CBD orally can make you very sleepy

John Malanca 34:11
you know and I do that that’s what I do for nine nighttime but every night Jamie guard no Gods right

Dr Jake Felice 34:18
are the main downside of tinctures is that a lot of people don’t like the taste. Now that can be worked with depending on the product. Some tinctures come the liquid has alcohol in it. Some tinctures it will have a sweeter glycerin type of a product in it. Some products will have oils like a coconut oil or an olive oil. Taste of a product is also a very important consideration for any edible and the other thing that a tincture can do is a lot of the time to the dropper will be scored so that you can give yourself 0.5 milliliters or 0.25. So if you want to adequately measure As your your dose a liquid gives you an advantage versus a brownie that’s this big that has 30 milligrams of CBD and I cut it in four. I’m not really one side is a little bigger. So I like that aspect of tinctures. But again, the taste is not favorable for some, if you want to do it that way, you can continue to search for good tasting products. There are they are out there,

John Malanca 35:29
they’re out there, you know, and I’m okay with the taste. I prefer mine MCT oil, which is the coconut oil.

Unknown Speaker 35:34
I like that

John Malanca 35:37
said, Hey, get your favorite yogurt, honey brownie and put the actual tincture on there and take it that way. It tastes good.

Dr Jake Felice 35:46
And john, the studies show that when you eat, doing an edible with a high lifted high fat meal, you get four to five times the absorption. So I really think if you want to save money on the products, yeah, use, introduce it to your physiology with the most optimal way that you can. And Anna lipid form I think is good. I know there are lots of lots of folks that are talking about nanotechnology, etc. I think theoretically that can be it works with pharmaceutical drugs. But I have not seen any specific plasma studies on humans checking blood levels, but a lot of those products are more expensive. They’ll argue, oh, but you get better absorption and then there aren’t studies for that. So a I’d like to see studies would be if you’re worried about affordability, you can actually do that process yourself by taking it with a high fat meal. And our when we drink something and or eat something and it goes into the digestive tract, it then gets transferred into the small intestine where we have digestive enzymes that do the same thing that a nanoparticle will do is they are emulsify the product. So we have natural emulsifiers but I think that taking it consistently with a high lipid or a high fat meal is a good way to go. So yeah.

John Malanca 37:19
You know, there’s so much stuff out there with like nanotechnology and what the other one single molecule isolettes Isla, excuse me, you know, and you talked about whole plant and, you know, bring everything together whole plant with the entourage effect. You know, you know, you need all those pieces or do you feel the same way about that?

Dr Jake Felice 37:42
Well, you do. There’s no doubt about it. And CBD as an isolate is not as beneficial as CBD in a whole plant. That doesn’t mean there’s no use for CBD isolates. I think they can be good additives, or even any cannabinoid isolates like a CBG isolate can be a good additive, but you want to be adding it to a whole plant mixture with the cannabinoids and with the terpenes. One of the other areas of synergy is involved with absorption and a lot of terpenes have been shown to enhance absorption in non cannabis studies. Mere seen is one and why RC E and E and linalool which comes from lavender can in non cannabis studies enhance absorption and delivery. But synergistically we know for a fact that taking with an MCT oil for example medium chain triglyceride like a coconut oil extract can enhance absorption and save you money

John Malanca 38:51
and Canada to take one trip terpenes so for our listeners if you have don’t know what a terpene linalool and myrcene are a couple of pining these are like essential oils, but we’ve all we’re all familiar with. What a terpene is, you know when you stop and smell the roses, the sense that the rose puts off, and that’s the heel that’s also healing. You know, we have oils nowadays, where the calming with, like you said with little lube but you know when I smell roses, they bring me back to my childhood, my grandmother, and my mother, you know,

Dr Jake Felice 39:21
and roses are wonderful for grief. The rose scent is very good emotionally for grief. We have animal studies on citrus terpenes, where you can take a bunch of rats in a cage and you measure you film them and you can measure their movements. And when you add a little bit of lemon to the air, their activity levels increase terpenes have the ability to affect physiology at very, very low levels of concentration. So they can be phenomenal. In terms of helping with health Now, why is it that these random molecules do that? And when you look at why does the plant make these terpenes. And it’s usually to affect the physiology of an organism. Some plants will put the fragrances in the flowers to attract insects, some will put fragrances that repel. Some of them are anti herbivory compounds. So they make their leaves not taste very good. So insects don’t want to eat them or herbivores don’t want to eat them. Tobacco, for example, the reason tobacco uses nicotine is I don’t know about your experience, but my first experience in seventh grade, and my buddy had a cigar and he’s like, let’s go out back and have a cigar. And all of a sudden, what am I doing? I’m vomiting on the sidewalk. Why? Why because of the nicotine, the nicotine is put in to the tobacco plant. So that if a horse or a grazing animal comes by and grabs a taste of that, it’s literally designed to make them not want to eat that again. And sure enough, even though both of my parents were bad models and smoke cigarettes, because of that experience, I wanted nothing to do with tobacco. So these plants are making molecules, specifically to influence physiology, it’s part of the defense mechanism of plants, they can’t run away, so they have to use a deterrence. And so they literally manufacture molecules that work on the physiology of other organisms.

John Malanca 41:39
It’s funny, yes, seventh grade, you know, I was a baseball player and I remember putting chewing tobacco and I was the same thing I turned white, my mouth filled up with saliva, and then turn white and then everything else can like okay, like the horse. I won’t be doing that again.

Dr Jake Felice 41:56
And yeah, and now and in our nervous system, we have an entire receptor system that is known as the nicotine nicotinic receptors based on nicotine. How do we know we had them? Well, a scientist said let’s study this molecule and see what it does in the body and the nicotinic receptors came up the ECS is the same way people study THC, the molecule that gets us high and they found these receptors in this entire receptor system. So in that way, these plants can be our teachers because for millions and millions of years, they have been interacting with the physiology of other organisms with specific goals in mind. Caffeine is another great example of that. Yeah, the flowers the coffee will put a little caffeine in the flowers that attracts the bees. So

John Malanca 42:53
yeah, I love I love your visualization. Yeah, like the horses I’m yeah, I’m a quick learner and some things and not not click on the others. The other ones you like, don’t do that. And what do you do? You keep on human nature. Go back, go back. Go back. So endocannabinoid system and cannabinoids, can you balance your endocannabinoid system with just one cannabinoid say with THC or just with CBD or do you need a combination?

Dr Jake Felice 43:19
I my feeling is on the THC side, there is a single molecule patented pharmaceutical medication called Marinol. patients tend to really dislike it. Even the high of if you talk about a marijuana high folks will say Oh, the music was groovy, etc, etc. This single molecule literally, I’ve never tried it, but patients will describe it as putting them into an altered world of extreme boredom. It’s not interesting, but all of a sudden you add these other components to it, and it changes the entire flavor. I think you could maybe make an argument on the CBD side that that might be helpful for overall balancing across a lot of boards, but really, what helps the balance is a balanced product. And part of that is bouquet you know the scent of the product. So it’s hard in many markets, but I always recommend the ability to smell or taste your products.

John Malanca 44:28
Yeah, there’s some studies showing that they’re finding higher success with patients that have a certain ailment and they say they’ll have all the products that are there. Oh, this one smells great. Then go with that one. Go go with the nose

Dr Jake Felice 44:45
nose. I think that especially for mood oriented and especially folks who are on the recreational side with flower smell your flower and and the these fragrances can Give us an amazing amount of information. Look at wine tasters Somalis, they can taste the wine and not only tell you that this is a Pino, but that it’s from, you know, 2006. And they can also tell you where they can tell you what kind of wine it is, what year and what soil it was grown in, really pick the location that it was grown in, all based on these chemicals. And the French have a saying in order to make great wine, the grapes must suffer hot days, cold nights, and they put out the flat annoys and terpenes and other molecules that contribute to the overall flavor and bouquet of the wine. Same is true with cannabis.

John Malanca 45:44
Yeah, it’s my brothers in the wine business. He’s down in Santa Barbara z been doing that for 27 years. And I always use the analogy because you know, patients, consumers come to us and say, I don’t want to get high. I want the medical part of the cannabis plant, not the recreational part. And so can you share the truth and I always say, well, it’s like going wine tasting, you can have a sip of wine, be perfectly fine. Drink three bottles, you’re gonna you’re gonna feel that and it’s probably not gonna be too comfortable. And same thing with cannabis. With THC. You can have small amounts, two milligrams, five milligrams and have success, you know, you go up hundred milligrams, I think it’s just way too much for the body. So can you share your thought process on the difference between when patients come to you and say, Oh, I don’t want to get high, I want their natural portion.

Dr Jake Felice 46:37
Well, I’ll play both sides. Because it works both way medicine is not easy. But if you are in pain, and in a lot of pain, you know this and your family members know this is you’re not always yourself. You’re not always yourself. So the pain has created an altered state to begin with, where you’re not yourself. I think that people are afraid to become not themselves and legitimately so but if you’re in pain, you’re not yourself or you may not be acting like yourself. We all have been there most of us have been there. We know that. There’s a beautiful study, I believe it’s the Journal of pain research called restored self a phenomenological study of pain relief in cannabis where basically, what this study is showing on the psychological level, when I get my cannabis dose, right, I say something along the lines of I feel like myself again, or I’ve gotten myself back or I’ve gotten my mojo back, I’ve got my shine back that kind of thing. So the alteration can alter you from not normal to normal in one case. If on the other hand, somebody has too much THC for their given proclivity that can make you not be yourself. I find that the main molecule for that is THC when people take it when they are when they take too much THC, it can be a bad experience for some folks. So when utilizing THC, I always recommend that they start with a very low dose. But another app called

John Malanca 48:22
hyper hyper emesis

Dr Jake Felice 48:24
hyperemesis syndrome that is hyperemesis emesis means vomiting. Hyper means high level, something called cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. It’s usually and I’ve spoken with a lot of emergency department doctors about this, it’s usually young men in their 20s, mid 20s and 30s that have been consuming an inordinately large, huge amount of THC in the form of vapes concentrates or concentrated edibles. And this syndrome makes you throw up all the time and the keynote if you’re a clinician, the keynote, meaning the thing that you know that that’s it is they’ll report that, yeah, I’m nauseous all the time. But when I take a hot shower, I feel better or if I take a hot bath, I feel better and then I get out of the shower, and the vomiting happens again. That is a keynote of cannabinoid hyperemesis syndrome. And the treatment for it is to eliminate the cause of the disturbance, which is in this case the huge amounts of cannabis that are being consumed. And so a lot of the times I see this as maybe an issue of abuse as opposed to therapy gone wrong.

John Malanca 49:46
Have you ever I’ve seen this happen with patients before where they’ve consumed too much and they’re given a CBD vaporizer. Mm hmm. And you know, when you’re having Too much something you’re like really you want me to take

Dr Jake Felice 50:02
you can take the THC but because remember that balancing is happening right so so you can use CBD either prior to the THC ingestion or after the THC ingestion to do that and I would also argue that if that if you are having a bad experience with cannabis to take advantage of the terpene called beta carry off lean, which is in high amounts in lemon balm and other plants but one particular plant that has a lot of it is black pepper, black pepper corns, and all have patients take a black peppercorn put it between their teeth and bite down. And it is a pretty quick regulator of that negative process also citrus face terpenes and so citrus oriented smells and pine oriented smells can assist assist I had and you can definitely have too much CBD or you can definitely have too much THC. Even with a CBD product that is acting as a buffer, you can still have too much but these are things that can mitigate or reduce the risk of that so so and again, the main areas that I teach or educate either patients on or my clients is how to handle side effects from THC is really in the short answer is use less use use a lot less. Um, and um we don’t do this so much anymore, but medical cannabis has become much less about inhalation and it used to be like 15 years ago, pretty much all you could purchase at the dispensaries was flour and maybe a few tinctures and a little butter. Now we have all of these other products, so we don’t really have to worry. I just tell my patients no need for you to smoke anything. Um, that’s not how it’s done anymore. Yes.

John Malanca 52:02
You. You mentioned how much though, can you share how much or how little I know everyone’s different. So what would you share with our audience today? Well bring your body back down to I guess feeding your endocannabinoid system bringing it back to balance.

Dr Jake Felice 52:17
I think the best way to feed your endocannabinoid system is with healthy limits. So good fats in your diet are going to help your body make its own Endocannabinoid molecules. But if you need more support, um, most folks tolerate CBD very well. So some folks will start at 10 milligrams, some folks will start at 15. Anywhere from 10 to 25, I think you’re safe across the board. Realize that the higher your dose gets doesn’t necessarily mean that it will work better and it could make you more sleepy. So anywhere from 10 to 25 on THC, if you are an absolute beginner, on 2.5 milligrams is a good place to start and never as a newbie, never ever, ever go over 10 milligrams your first time. Wait till the next day, the biggest mistake people make is I ate I did an edible, an hour hour and a half ago, I’m feeling a little bit of an effect I want more and then reducing it, the edible products will creep up on you. And you should not be reducing within at least a two hour window where you can easily have too much. If you have too much of an edible and it makes you feel not comfortable. It does. It’s not going to make you sick, it’s not going to make you die. It’s not going to be toxic, but you may not have a very good time. Most people will feel like oh I can’t, I can’t think I can’t think about certain things because the the thought process is interrupted and they don’t like that. With an edible you have to wait a with an inhale and with an inhale product. You only have to wait 30 minutes unless it is a concentrate in which case I say wait an hour, an hour and a half. But with an edible if you have too much. It’s literally could be until the next day where you are coming through and I have had patients on extreme high doses have effects lasting 24 to 36 hours. Again, no harm talks from a toxicology point of view. But certainly not feeling good in your brain and in your mind from too much THC. And that’s when

John Malanca 54:37
I was chuckling earlier because I’ve had that before and it’s an uncomfortable feeling and it’s

Dr Jake Felice 54:43
back there’s no way back and so when I black pepper, CBD can be helpful pines citruses and I always tell patients put one of your old favorite movies on that you’ve watched 15 or 20 times so you don’t have to follow the plotline. Exactly, and just do your best and then sleep it off, look it off. And that’s

Unknown Speaker 55:05
one thing is for sure.

Dr Jake Felice 55:07
It is it will, it will make you want to sleep at some point. And don’t be afraid to just you know. And that’s the other thing is if you’ve done an edible, and you find in the morning, that alarms going off, and you’re hitting that snooze a bunch of times, you may have had too much, we want to use the least amount possible to get that effective dose for pain, um, rarely. But most of the time, you don’t need much more than five milligrams of THC. And a lot of the times two and a half is plenty, along with some of the CBD and other whole plant based products. And again, 10 ish on the CBD up to 25.

John Malanca 55:50
So those are good, good guidelines. And as you mentioned earlier, you know, it helps keep the cost down, you know, more is not always better. It’s not covered by insurance as well. And I want to do just as a disclaimer to protect you as as well as me, you know, this is not to replace a one on one with your medical professional. If you’d like to have a medical professional console, you do the doctor play,

Dr Jake Felice 56:14
I will do cannabis coaching, I do not do authorization forms anymore, I’ve done. I’m no longer doing those. So,

Unknown Speaker 56:24
you know, but

Dr Jake Felice 56:25
honestly, I feel that until it is an FDA approved medication, it can put clinicians at risk on so you whoever the doctors are that are writing there, they’re special people, because they are putting their necks out for you guys a little bit. And so I think that that’s a good thing.

John Malanca 56:44
Good. Good side, one should so the informational purposes only here to question always comes up? Not only How much do I take, but when do I feel it? When do I feel my body get back to balance? And is that a I know it’s not a one size fits all what works for me might be quicker than what might work for you?

Dr Jake Felice 57:03
Well, but that I think in terms of I think that in terms of sleep, a lot of times we have a sleep debt. So just because we have one or two nights of good sleep, that doesn’t necessarily mean that you are caught up in your sleep. So for sleep, I think it can take a long time to catch up for pain. It depends on the cause of the pain is the cause inflammatory are there structural changes in the joints or in the bones or the muscles. Those can take a longer period of time. But you can certainly get a quick and rapid relief. For anxiety, anxiety is caused for any number of different reasons. If you’re not addressing the underlying issue, it’s going to come back but it can help for a certain period of time. I think that balance is a dynamic process, that cannabinoids, the terpenes, even some of the flavonoid molecules are part of what we put together. And it’s about doing little things for yourself, I always tell patients learn what you know, so many times, we know how like, I know that my neck bugs me when I sit at this computer screen. So until that changes, you could be not really addressing the root cause. So So the short answer is IT Assist, it can assist balance very rapidly. But to balance is always dynamic. And it is between our inner our inner world and our outer world. The outer world is constantly changing. And the inner world is constantly changing. So this is why I think the plan is a great teacher not in terms of some anthropomorphic like Happy Birthday to Mary Jane any kind of a thing, but that it can teach me how is my body doing today? How how, how, how did I wake up this morning that I have too much? How am I feeling today? And we really should be checking in with ourselves on at least a few times a day. How am I doing? If I had enough food and my hydrating well, and these these so the plant can really teach us about what we can do to maintain that, that sense of balance. It’s not a magic pill that’s going to make everything better. But it is a kind of a synergistic thing that can hit a lot of points at one time. And for many folks, you’ll notice it quickly. You don’t it’s not going to take weeks and weeks for you to figure out if this is effective for you.

John Malanca 59:51
So when you say true balance you know I I’m also the first to say cannabis is not you know the golden pill, the golden ticket and I think it You know, you talked about the three pillars, I like adding five pillars, you know, get it getting outside with nature, pick up picking up another hobby, you know, for the elderly, with with brain issues. Do crossword puzzles, you know, there’s, I think there is a nunnery up in the hills, US and Europe somewhere. And they have the is like a zero population of dementia and Parkinson’s, because he’s old Catholic nuns are constantly on their crossword puzzle,

Dr Jake Felice 1:00:29
and all kinds of intellectual games. Take them out. belligerent play, playing a musical instrument is phenomenal for the nervous system, so much of the nervous system is involved. And when you play music, you’re not only are producing sound, but if you’re playing with others, you’re listening as well. So So and again, music, we know that singing affects the endocannabinoid system. But the thing, the thing that I would like to set just to answer your question, again, is that the cannabis can teach us about the dynamic nature of this homeostatic balancing system. And it can give us some tools to monitor ourself and help us deal with a very difficult changing outer world that happens to all of us from time to time. Everybody has good days, everybody has bad days, and noticing what makes my days good. And what makes my days not so good.

John Malanca 1:01:32
You know, and it can be like a domino effect, you’re talking about sleep and anxiety, depression, and, you know, when we’re losing on sleep, we’ve all experienced it, you’re sluggish The next day, you drink coffee, or you eat, you know, you know, donut or simply then you’re now your guts off, your body’s off, you’re not sleeping, and it’s a domino effect of your anxiety coming up your depression coming, you know. So,

Dr Jake Felice 1:01:59
one, one of our most important aspects of our internal our sorry, the external environment, the environment that is outside of the body, many of us think of as inside the body, me and I mean, the gut flora, the healthy gut flora. And biologically speaking, from the mouth through the anus, we are a giant donut. So our food literally technically is outward donut, big long tube. The food is outside of us technically. So these gut flora which we know have dramatic effects on the gut, brain axis immune activity, inflammation. I’m sorry about that.

John Malanca 1:02:42
My mom

Dr Jake Felice 1:02:44
let that let that go. Um, that the the gut bacteria are also positively influenced by cannabinoids. So it really is, it really does give us a tool to manage. It’s a tool to manage these multiple features. Because being human is complex, it’s a complex

John Malanca 1:03:06
it is and let’s go right into receptors you know, cb one, cb two receptors. And how did this work with the CB one CB one receptor and Eb two receptor in the brain as well as the body?

Dr Jake Felice 1:03:18
Well, that’s a deep topic, one of the most important ways that the CB one and CBT two works for pain and seizures is something called retrograde inhibition. I won’t go into the elaborate details of it. But usually when I teach an audience, I say I asked the audience the question, what makes a car work well, and some people will say, Oh, the tires and you know what makes a car work? Some people will say, Oh, this the steering wheel, the engine. What makes you know, and hardly anyone ever says brakes. Hardly anyone ever mentioned that brakes are necessary? Well, our nervous system There’s a famous physiologic saying that 70% of our nervous system exists to slow the other 30% down. The The only thing that we know of that’s that that will slow down neuro transmission and the opposite way that it goes is the endocannabinoid system. So it is in many ways the brakes of our nervous system. So if you have a seizure disorder, that is a hyperactive event, the brakes can be put on it can slow them down, pain signals are unidirectional, they go one way. So retrograde transmission will go the opposite way and can help turn down the pain signal. So that’s one very profound way and it is the only it is the only neurotransmitter system. In all of science that goes the opposite way, so it enables the enables the network to have a much more robust response. We also have hyperactivity in our culture. Anxiety is a type of a hyper activity where I can’t slow my thoughts down, I can’t slow my thinking down. I’m sitting in bed, I can’t stop. I can’t stop these racing thoughts. It can help alleviate the hyperactivity of the nervous system. Now, that’s going to have a downside for some folks, if you overdo it, or you use too much of it, you can slow things down too much. we all we all have seen that and yeah, popular culture.

John Malanca 1:05:41
So I was thinking making your car work better is gasoline.

Dr Jake Felice 1:05:47
That’s a good one. That’s one area and

John Malanca 1:05:50
do the right stuff in your body.

Dr Jake Felice 1:05:52
And oh, well, good fuel could be fuel molecules. Yeah, molecules. When you’re building a house, for yourself, you want to use the most highest quality ingredients you can because they’re going to last longer. Even the mortar behind you, even the mortar, not all biologic molecules are created the same and the, the fats that we take in are very important. So if we have a Coldwater fish versus a corn fed, I won’t say the name of it fast food burger. Food burger is going to have a lot more arachidonic acid, which is a pro inflammatory, limpid, the omega threes in the fish aren’t anti inflammatory. So they’ll feed both the fast food burger and the the the Pacific wild salmon are going to feed into the same physiologic pathway that helps us reduce inflammation but one of those molecules is going to be better the fish the healthy one, the other one and can actually be pro inflammatory. So the standard American diet we get a lot of pro inflammatory ingredients in it. And excess sugar can also create conditions where there’s free radical damage, and create scenarios that are less than ideal for us.

John Malanca 1:07:23
It’s funny you say that, you know, last weekend I had to back to back birthday parties and I had to back to back delicious cakes. But I felt to the next morning, I felt it in my joints. I felt you know pay Oh my God, I

Dr Jake Felice 1:07:39
think about that awareness, paying attention to how things and some things aren’t crystal clear. But some of them are keeping a journal can be very helpful for that. I know I’m the same way I love I love my I love my sweet treats. I noticed personally with those and especially with wheat oriented snacks, because at my age I’m still above average Li active on and, boy, what used to be a gentle activity on the weekend can now be pain inducing. So I get we as we as we get those aches and pains we can use those as feedback off for how we’re doing in general.

John Malanca 1:08:26
Yeah, well, good. Well, Jake, I appreciate it. Your knowledge first off great educated to on, you know, getting the message out and for me to understand and me to follow, but I’m certain our followers also feel that way. Can you talk about your company cannabis matrix consulting and what you do?

Dr Jake Felice 1:08:47
Yes, you can go to cannabis matrix.com or Google me at Dr. Jake felicia.com. I help individuals make good cannabis decisions through education. I help cannabis companies make good decisions based on what they should be educating their marketplace because if you own a cannabis company or are an executive, and you know your product is good, the marketplace may not have enough information to evaluate that so we can work on marketing messaging, and then also on the production side how to make a good cannabis product, especially utilizing synergy with cannabinoids, terpenes, flavonoids and other plant based molecules. You can also visit my website at those addresses that I mentioned. And really for me, I think that what I am about is teaching folks that this plant world this world of plants and botanicals has something to offer us as modern humans. That is not only scientifically ballad and health promoting but also can be deeply, personally rewarding to develop these types of abilities to care for ourselves and connect us with the planet.

John Malanca 1:10:16
Yeah, well, well said. I think educating yourself as you mentioned, seeing cannabis is right for you. It’s not for everybody, but it but we see a lot of studies or a lot of studies come out. It’s been used as a plant as a medicine for thousands and thousands of years. You know, you’re not

Dr Jake Felice 1:10:35
going to find a less toxic medication than cannabis. So just in terms of of the toxicity, the downside of cannabis biologically compared to other other, especially pharmaceutical oriented products, is very, very good.

John Malanca 1:10:53
You know, before our call today, I was on the phone with a patient from Texas and she was we’ve worked with over the years and her breast cancer came back. And so she lives in Texas, so she can use the CBD product. So she wants help with nausea and pain and stuff like that. So she asked her doctors about that. And they said, No, you live here in Texas and I said, you know you should do you should ask him to write you not my first choice but ask me write you prescription for Marinol for the app for nausea and in pain. And she said you know I did but they told me it doesn’t work nice and then have them you know, then tell them right to our government say hey, this doesn’t work. We need to try cannabis. But I think when a patient’s going through something like this, let them try because they’re hurt. Her second option was fentanyl patch. morphine and high doses of oxy, I think, which will, yes, it may help but it’s going to wreck the gut. And so you’re talking about you know, you cannot find a more natural

Dr Jake Felice 1:11:58
and also the the cannabis will help the morphine work better. It and it also reduces side effects of withdrawal. And if there’s tolerance to the opiates that have and we know this from clinical studies in humans, if tolerance to the opiates develops, cannabis can help reverse it. Also cannabis does not potentiate opiates, meaning it doesn’t make you at risk to opiates puts you at risk of your heart stopping or forgetting to breathe. But cannabis with opiates along with them does not add to that risk at all. In fact, we see across the board that medical patients who are on opiates who can confidently use cannabis reduce their opiate use, and that saves lives we are we are getting to the point where we can really say that now

John Malanca 1:12:46
Good, good. That’s why I think a doctor or medical professional should be involved especially when opiates are involved. Their drug interaction really

Dr Jake Felice 1:12:52
we don’t have good options for long term pain, the opiate class we all know about the end Said’s ibuprofen Aleve, also have huge problems that are not as popularly talked about. corticosteroids have huge problems that all clinicians with their salt are aware of. Um, but the long term options for pain on the medical side are bleak. And yet so many of us have chronic debilitating, you know, boy, I bet we can just even just weekend warrior stuff where it’s just overdoing it and feeling sore and stiff the next day.

John Malanca 1:13:34
You know, it’s tough because pain is such a major topic here, globally, but here in the US, I work with a lot of pain organizations that are treated like criminals because they take you know, they’ll get a pharmaceutical thing of 3030 pills, and they take they need one day they may need to and when they go into refill it, they now they’re on that nonetheless saying oh you’re abusing now I’m in pain. And so

Dr Jake Felice 1:14:07
person a new person and this is this is I believe a 2016 study, who is put on opiates for one week has something like a 30% chance that a year later they’re still going to be using them. So when you put patients on opiates, they stay on opiates. It’s a good business model. It’s not a good medical model for long term, but there is we have an ethical obligation to treat pain. We do the best we can. The problem is the problem is abuse is a medical issue. It is not necessarily a moral failing. And it is just a certain percentage of people get caught up on this. And cannabis is not a major pain reliever. It’s more of a mild pain reliever but it works so well with the opiates. It works well with the enset decrease gastric irritation from ansatz from inhaled cannabis, not even a topical product. So maybe these are things we could talk about in a future visit john. Lots of lots of good reasons to use cannabis for various reasons. So

John Malanca 1:15:21
well, we’ll end on that. Dr. Jake, Felicia, thank you very much for the education about the endocannabinoid system. We all have an endocannabinoid system. So bring your body back to homeostasis. If you if you don’t know what it is, do some research. Ask your doctor. If your doctor is not familiar about the endocannabinoid system, this might be a great conversation that you can take some little tidbits and bring it back to him or her and say, here, did you know about this, this system that’s in our body? And they don’t direct them to us here United Nation group director, Dr. Jake, Felicia. Because again, it’s just like the ripple effect throwing the pebble in the pond in the in the ripples go out of education, and I’m a big fan of getting this information out. Software, everybody. I totally understand that doesn’t work for everybody. But I’ve seen it work. And I’ve seen it not work too. But anyway. Jake, I thank you so much. As always, always a pleasure, everybody. And again, this is John Malanca with United patients group, be informed and we’ll be NB will and we’ll see you soon as well. Bye bye.