This episode covers an extensive conversation about CBD dosing and ailments.

Transcript

Dr. Allan Frankel – Dose Away! Making your CBD Work for You.

John Malanca 0:00
Hi everybody, John Malanca here with United patients group and today I have a special guest. We’ve worked together for probably about eight, nine years in the cannabis industry. His name is Dr. Allen Frankel, founder and head of greenbridge Medical out of Santa Monica, California. And not only is Dr. Frankel, an expert in cannabis, but especially in background has been with internal medicine for 20 something years and I would say 27 I think it’s a little higher. But Dr. Lu about his background. So welcome. Dr. Frankel.

Dr. Allan Frankel 0:34
Thanks, john. It’s always fun, and

I love these

Q and A’s whether it’s the audience whether it’s you and I, what I really love to do is for us to make this into an online radio show. You know, anything candidates just call the seed question with a sprouting question a growing question extracting question don’t seem question thcv all the new cool stuff that’s happening back Yes I’m out Frankel greenbridge med comm 3103930 6.0 and we’re doing virtual telemedicine now, but we’re having a great time with it because I think we all need something that’s at least entertaining. So my visits Voltaire in 1732 stated the art of medicine consists in amusing patients while nature cures them.

John Malanca 1:31
So that Hmm,

Dr. Allan Frankel 1:33
yeah. And now I do it with telemedicine.

John Malanca 1:35
Good. So, let’s talk about when we talk about telemedicine as well. But let’s

talk about

you know, you have an impressive background. You’re not just a pot Doc, you know, I hate that term pot Doc, but a lot of the doctors in California and across the country are, here’s your recommendation coming in a year. You know, if you need a renewal, and there’s only a handful of doctors that truly know, especially about dosing, it’s not a one size fits all. We’ll get into that but it’s not a one size fits all you look at age weight current health condition the type of stage if it is cancer other ailments or you’re going through any any medications just to name a few of what you as a doctor you would use a physician look at with the patient and also we talked we’ll go into hope as well but the will to live do they want to live it’s just something that they want to get out of because a lot of dogs a lot of conversation we’ve had a lot of these patients are just a was me. I don’t want to you know, I don’t want to do anything about it. This is the end of my life and unfortunately, you know, that’s a lot of people go down the dark rabbit hole with that, but let’s go back Can you just share one? Well, let’s talk about cannabis, and cannabinoids, and most importantly, the endocannabinoid system. Can you share what the endocannabinoid system is and why it’s important for

Unknown Speaker 2:52
everyone, mammals, human beings.

Unknown Speaker 2:55
Find me with a vertebra. Yeah, there’s a lot of slimy fish that have endocannabinoid system. Well, I kind of changed how I do this explanation, right we draw this into, we’re gonna EXO cannabinoids that are external to our body. External cannabinoids, it could be from a plant could be from hemp could be from a laboratory. And then endocannabinoids are cannabinoids that we make. So first let’s talk about the endocannabinoid system. The cannabis. There’s new studies with carbon dating that cannabis is 23 million years old, 23 million years old. And this is one of the reasons that I’ve been changing more to acid molecules which we’ll be talking about. Man only had control of fiber chimney fire 100,000 years ago, from 23 million years ago, up until 100,000 years ago, there was tons of candidates around and early versions of cannabis, but they could not heat it.

Unknown Speaker 4:03
If they’re not able

Unknown Speaker 4:04
to heat it. They couldn’t get THC, they couldn’t get CBD, they would get thca cbda CBG a THC V A all the acid forms. So once that a couple of years ago exactly never talked about it this way that it it this has been going on for 23 million years have been very, very premature vertebrates. So we have a system inside of us just like we have a nervous system. We have a venous system arterial system. We have an endocannabinoid system, and the term endo meaning internal cannabinoids because these molecules that we make hundreds of them. And receptors we have for these molecules, whether they’re part of the endocannabinoid system, or the EXO cannabinoid system, which we’ll talk about in a minute. So the endocannabinoid system is 1.2 billion years. So we’re talking about a receptor and a set of plants that go back, possibly 2 billion years anyway, 1 billion, but a very, very, very long time ago. And how anybody can be concerned that there’s something harmful, intrinsically harmful about cannabis. I mean, you’d have to ask yourself, what’s the last clinical trial that’s been done to prove that tomatoes are safe? I don’t think I couldn’t. I looked. There are no studies on tomatoes. None, not one and there’s a bunch of studies on cannabis. So now let’s go that’s the endocannabinoid system which is always working on its own, but sometimes becomes a little deficient and then we call it an Endocannabinoid deficiency. And then we have to bring in now

Unknown Speaker 5:45
actually have a big

Unknown Speaker 5:46
sign the EXO cannabinoids. So the EXO cannabinoids for cannabinoids that are made outside of the body. They include molecules like CBD THC CBD acid the raw form of CBD, THC acid which is turning out to be an incredibly important molecule in

Unknown Speaker 6:10
oil,

Unknown Speaker 6:12
and a total of about 120 major cannabinoids, couple hundred terpenes which are this smell molecules but they’re not there for the smell but there because that’s now actually does something. Okay Have you ever wondered me? If I ask people what fruit that they’ve picked up and smelled in their life by far it’s a citrus fruit and usually it’s a lemon. And so why do we all smell lemons? Because lightning, which is a terpene in a lemon hits our CB one or cannabinoid one receptor, just like a tiny tiny tiny THC dose. So a tiny, tiny happiness and that’s why we have lemon cleaners. It’s not a coincidence just because it makes us happier. The lemon sense and cars, lemon it’s I don’t know Anybody who doesn’t like a lemon scent so those are the some of the xo cannabinoids that we’re talking about so far the cannabis ones, but there’s also

Unknown Speaker 7:11
hemp based,

Unknown Speaker 7:12
you know cannabinoids, and there’s also cannabinoids that are made in the laboratory. But they have in common, at least at this point in time is that they don’t have those hundreds of terpenes and flavonoids and plant waxes they basically have a small amount of CBD, a tiny amount of THC and tiny, tiny amounts of terpenes mean nobody’s gone up to a typical industrial hemp plants and say that smells great. It just doesn’t. So the CBD products that are out there everywhere. I mean, everywhere are generally Chinese based, you know, hemp products that are generally not what it says in the bottle, often have heavy metals, and it’s just not very effective. And I tell anybody Watching this who’s trying to sell CBD products that they got at the local grocery store. It’s not the same don’t give up on CBD because single molecule doesn’t help.

Unknown Speaker 8:10
So that’s a general idea.

John Malanca 8:13
Yeah, when you talk about all they do the acid forms and non acid forums, which I want to get into, which are called cannabinoids are about 120 cannabinoids, we’ve had this discussion Some people say 180. Some people say more, some people say less. And the reason because more being introduced each and every day are discovered. I mean, just like thcv no one knew what THC fee was, you know, two years ago, three years ago in Australia, it hasn’t even really hit the market. I know that you’re a big proponent of thcv getting out to market but before we go into the different cannabinoids, can you share what a cannabinoid is because they each play a role. You know, the most important one that everyone hears about, and has been hearing about for years is THC in over the last you know, the gold rush in the cannabis industry CBD is the buzzword cuz you’re like you said you hear it, you hear it, see it grocery stores to your chiropractic office dentist now carry it. And then or even our local health food market, you go in there and you’ll see a shelf across the street from your office as a high end natural food store. And you’ll have 50 different CBD products behind a glass container. Like how do you choose? I mean, really, how do you choose? Yeah, I want that one. And so can you talk about what are cannabinoids and how each plays a role and a lot of patients I’m certainly you get this as well is, you know Dr. Frankel. I don’t want to get high. So I want I want the medical part of the cannabis plant, not the recreational part, which is totally incorrect. And so can you go into that? What is a cannabinoid, how they each play a role and how important THC plays a role in a lot of ailments that are out there. Certainly cancer we’ll get into cancer shortly.

Unknown Speaker 9:59
Let’s talk about that. CBD, THC and THC a,

Unknown Speaker 10:03
at least as an introduction,

Unknown Speaker 10:07
CBD and THC. I mean, first of all THC a THC acid is just a form of THC before it’s heated. So if you take some raw bugs, you know cannabis flowers and you don’t hate them, it’s all virtually all thca we’re doing a test now on some extracts that are were in storage for a year and a half that we have the certificate of

Unknown Speaker 10:38
authenticity for and

Unknown Speaker 10:40
that week but somebody came across the leader of it. So we’re going to send a couple cc’s off for testing that will show us how much actually decarboxylated over time because shulam has been talking about this that if you how do you deal with acid molecules if it’s a constantly changing Well, I think it’s probably more, but we’ll know in a week, we’ll know in a week. I think it’s probably more constantly changing. We’re thca on the vine, you know, ultimately gets picked, harvested, and dried. And then if it’s smoked or vaped, the thca in the bud from the heat turns to THC, or it’s made into an extract, it could be either, you know, depending on the plant could be a CBD extract, it could be a THC extract, but when we say CBD extract and THC extract, I’m talking about CBD with hundreds of other molecules and how many hundred? We don’t know. And the reason we don’t know which is this is I just verified this a couple weeks ago. There is there is truly at least according to Dr. Jeff raver, who I think is respected by by everybody. There is no lab in the United States other than at the University of Mississippi

Unknown Speaker 11:59
where We could take a tincture that you buy,

Unknown Speaker 12:02
or a capsule,

Unknown Speaker 12:05
capsule like this, that has oil inside of it, and be able to test what the terpenes and the flavonoids and all those other molecules are. They can only test cannabinoids. And to me, this is gonna be a huge thing. I mean, I plan on doing this being a troublemaker myself, I’m gonna go buy a bunch of products, you know, take the labels off, somebody names them and put some 123 10 and then we’ll send them to also lay in Mississippi, and we’ll see what the thca is, and THC, and we’ll see but what happens over a year and a half. Because if the if mushrooms, right, that means if you’re keeping an extract for a year and you’re counting on thca cbda it may be converting in the bottle. So I’m very excited. I can’t wait to get the test results back. My guess is it’s going to be fine. And that We’ll note this is what the study is about that if you keep it in oil form it doesn’t continually decarboxylate like it doesn’t bug form.

John Malanca 13:08
What I’m going ahead of ourselves here because criminai You know, we’re always when we were juicing the plant which you know for our listeners is the THC that Dr. Frank talking about. And so you just like you can with wheat grass, you know, you’re juicing the wheat grass, you take your wheatgrass shot, you could do that with the cannon but that’s actually what we’re doing with the cannabis plant. In most cases. I know Alan you you talked about cold press etc. But when I’m talking about here if you’re getting the cannabis plant to leave, I don’t

Unknown Speaker 13:39
mean we have patients growing.

Unknown Speaker 13:42
If you go to this is a good tip. Okay, neither red star tip. It’s in Amsterdam, Netherlands CBD crew.com CBD crew CR e W. I’m pretty sure Bob Ashanti is the head of That and I met some of these guys, you know, years ago and I could have couldn’t I lost connection with them, but they have an auto flower feminized seed, where if you wanted to buy some of these seeds, anybody can grow this plant and what the plant ends up, it ends up being a small plant, easy to grow indoors, if you’re an apartment, we could do a whole show just on how to make your own stuff. And because you know, it’s so expensive, that if you could if the cost for even like full cancer medication is maybe three seeds a month,

Unknown Speaker 14:37
you know, $15 and

Unknown Speaker 14:39
some dirt and some water because the vast majority people can’t afford these cannabis products so much to the dismay of the dispensary that I work with. I’m I’m giving up this information. I mean because even if everybody were rich enough to be able to afford this month after month after month a lot of people can’t and this is going to be a way people can start making the stuff at home pressing decarboxylated everything

John Malanca 15:11
I think everybody with what’s going on here in the world I think a lot of people are feeling more comfortable to stay stay at home nowadays to stay

Unknown Speaker 15:20
just stay safe and grow they stay safe and grow Why not? Huh?

Unknown Speaker 15:24
You know I think that’s

John Malanca 15:27
that’s what our goal was is to just be self sufficient on our land girl girl our fruits and vegetables grow cannabis and live a happy healthy life. That’s that’s a that’s we’re putting our seeds in the ground this week. Or we can go around town like Johnny Appleseed Did you know and started planting cannabis seeds around around the country. Let’s go back to cannabis to contaminate before because I think is a major part of the chain link of leading on to treating ailments and how you what you do with your patient. And why you choose certain cannabinoids for certain certain patients and certain ailments. So can you give us like a cliff note version of what a cannabinoid is, I know you mentioned cannabinoids but what what they are and how each of those plays a role, you know, THC with cancer CBD, we’re starting to spread THC THC, a with inflammation and Kiki talk going a little deeper into that.

Unknown Speaker 16:24
Well, it turns out that all First of all, the plant has become very, very distorted over the last 50 or 60 years, 70 years. Because people in the 50s and 60s like people like me, we were looking for a certain effect. And if our guy then always ended up being Jerry, I don’t know, would bring by some 19th it was kind of legal than it was before Nixon. So it wasn’t a big deal. And the truth is I really didn’t smoke back then I was 49 because I wouldn’t be honest but that pretend that I So if I went and called Jerry and he came by, and he handed me a sample, and I lit it, and I didn’t get stoned, I didn’t know that it could do anything else, right? None of us knew that it could do anything else, maybe Miss shulam knew. So I would reject it. And then he gave me something that I really liked had more THC in it. So the higher THC strains got rewarded by them being sold more, so they got grown more and over the years since you can go to a generation in cannabis and five, six months, over five years you can have very very different plants. So the plants went from being one and a half percent THC to being now I just saw one the other day 27% THC and I’ve seen 30% mean that’s potentially dangerous mean that that that double concentration, let me just know what they’re doing. You can you could end up in the ER not because you’re sick, but because you feel you’re gonna die. So the cannabinoids THC these are how

Unknown Speaker 18:03
to actually get a

John Malanca 18:06
timeline drop as you normally have the chart in the wall and you can point here. Yes.

Unknown Speaker 18:11
Yeah, I can make that as a background. Yeah, there you are. My tapes will be going like this. Yeah. So the cannabinoids used to be one to one to one to one, everything was small amounts and about the same. And the four major cannabinoids as it turned out, CBD, THC thca and cbda. And this is what our cancer regimen is because all those molecules have been shown to treat pain to treat poor appetite to increase to decrease nausea and kill cancer cells and the acid molecules there is more and more and more information on the anti cancer effects and also the neurological benefits of these acid molecules and we Think about it. This was the type of molecules that man was using for a premium for millions of years. So I’ve been when I are, for a number of years, I kind of discounted the acid molecules because there was no evidence, but there was no data on them because it’s very difficult to make THC a in the lab. It’s unstable. But that mushroom says, which I’m sure is true, but I don’t have to find out how unstable it is. I can’t believe nobody’s done this. I can’t believe I haven’t done this test. So we’ll know in a week.

John Malanca 19:34
Well, that’s something that Chris and I were looking to do is juicing and after I was getting at night and I lost train of thought there is juicing. And you know, anybody wants to start a business out there, I think juicing and see how long the juices bioavailable and you know, and you go to your health food store, you’re getting your juices sometimes they’re up there probably for a week and you’re still buying them, you know how long will the THC acid in that fresh squeezed juice Be fresh enough where you still have the benefits of that. And so I think, you know, maybe you and Jeff could try that while you’re out sampling or testing these products to see how long after two days, five days, seven days, is it still safe to say as potent as it should be?

Unknown Speaker 20:18
You know, I love it you you’re someone who knows cannabis.

John Malanca 20:24
You know, and I didn’t get it. I didn’t we’ll get into this later, but I didn’t really get your introduction as to why you how you became a cannabis expert, you know, being a UC UCLA, medical grad. You know, and then you kind of fell into this in this industry, just like crinan I fell into this industry. Can you I want our listeners know, you know that you are the real deal. And so can you just just give like a cliff note version of, you know, how, when you became a medical doctor, and then an internist but also into the cannabis industry, you were kind of adopted into this or dragged in just like Korean IRA were drafted.

Unknown Speaker 21:07
Well, in 1999, I was 49. And I had a viral infection. My chest just wasn’t getting better and I was short of breath, went to my physician, he sent me to a cardiologist. I was in congestive heart failure, and they gave me six months to live if I didn’t get a heart transplant, so I was 21 years ago, and I chose not to transplant because I just didn’t.

Unknown Speaker 21:33
I didn’t want to do it.

Unknown Speaker 21:35
So I was living in the Topanga area, which for those you don’t know is quite rich in cannabis. So we have friends in Topanga, you have access to cannabis, which I never used before. But I got when my friends heard I was sick. They brought over tons of different stuff. I don’t know what it was, but I’m sure it was all just high THC stuff. And I liked it made me feel more comfortable. It was less depressed. But in five weeks without even thinking about it, I ran up my flight of stairs, which I hadn’t done in months. And then I was like, whoa. And anyway, my heart was healed. And if you look up now THC and congestive heart failure, there are a bunch of studies on THC benefiting congestive heart failure. So it’s quite possible. It was the cannabis that saved my life. But regardless, that my changing didn’t depend upon that. It intrigued me. Then I started reading and I started reading a lot. And that’s what hooked me. And when people say there’s no data, and this was 21 years ago, I mean, there was a lot less data now. I mean, there’s a lot of data. I mean, you look at when people think, oh, there’s no future in Canvas. Why are all mean I don’t know of any university that I’ve had any contact with. That’s not working in cannabis. Israel just spent a half I think half a billion dollars just on cancer. In cancer, I mean, you don’t have this happening at every university if it’s nothing, I mean, the pharmaceutical companies are going to look at this and it’s not going to be, I don’t think CBD THC stuff that they come out with. They’re going to come up with molecules that interact directly with our endocannabinoid system. So they can pack them. They scare me to death. They scare me to death. We have these plants that work great in my I don’t do anything in longer. Not much anyway, my kitchen sink, but I could I could grow CBD plants in my backyard, extracted myself diluted. And even without testing. I’ve done it so many times. I could make up a 20 ml CBD solution that would be so much better than epidiolex. And now of course we’re using labs and lab people but it’s it’s not that complicated. It’s just a it’s just a vegetable

John Malanca 24:01
Well, you say that, you know, the pharmaceutical companies will be there. They’re already here and they’re already doing it. So you already see that that it is that it is something that is, is staying around and has been around as even. You mentioned 23 million years ago. And that was the first description. I’ve heard you talk about why they didn’t smoke it because they hadn’t discovered fire yet. Yeah. Make sense? Now,

Unknown Speaker 24:26
another story similar to that, you know, everybody talks about everything’s happening 6000 years ago, the 6000, the Bible of dead sea scrolls. And the reason everything was 6000 years ago, is that when man learned how to write before, they couldn’t document it, I mean, they were smoking for those 94,000 years. I mean, they were smoking and it was definitely a male dominant society. I don’t want to make any comments on that, but there were benefits of being Neanderthals. I

Unknown Speaker 25:01
think people have marathons have guilt. Do they have guilt?

Unknown Speaker 25:06
They guilt feelings are

John Malanca 25:08
ignited, they probably didn’t know how to write it down to express it with to their therapist. What was going. Let’s just try this. So let’s talk about you talked about cancer a minute ago with the four cannabinoids. cancer has affected both of us in different ways. my beautiful wife Corrine was diagnosed with stage four, pancreatic cancer, and she passed in 2017. Were in the industry we live a healthy life. We know the knowledge of the cannabis plant. We know the knowledge we have the knowledge of health and staying healthy and what we need to do to keep this health. Why did it affect her in and why didn’t it work on current because it’s worked on numerous other people we’ve worked with how we’re kind of adopted to this industry is my father. I had stage four lung cancer metastasized to the brain. He’s still alive. That was 2011.

Unknown Speaker 26:06
And now you a cannabis expert, a man who knows health his he’s a physician knows about health, what it means to keep stay on top of his health, and you get prostate cancer and you’ve had a scary year and when I share with others about a unhealthy PSA number is double digits. Can you continue on to that story? What your PSA numbers were? Yeah, so last year, I didn’t feel well. And it’s unbelievable that actually I didn’t die from this because yeah, I may be a doctor and I might know In theory, but the right thing to do for myself is but I’m a terrible, horrible patient. I’m a really good doctor, really, really terrible patient. So I had a back of my mind. I had an idea something was going on because I can barely walk. I mean I was pale. It’s It was unbelievable level. of denial. And I got diagnosed at the end of No, just November, end of November. with stage four prostate cancer it was I was wondering why I was having pain mustering football with my sons. It was because I had a metastasis in my shoulder, which, which I wouldn’t freak me out. It’s like right here, I think, oh, that’s cancer. But it was like, all over and the treatment that I’ve used is hormonal blockers. And cannabis. I just thought it had a follow up last week, and my regular doctors up at home. So I saw one of his partners who I’ve known for a long time. And the lab came back a few days ago. And so she was looking at it and scratching her head and looking at me, and looking at other lab and printing out stuff. And then she finally said, What else are you doing? We’ve never seen this and I said

Unknown Speaker 27:58
cannabis

Unknown Speaker 28:00
What type of candidates next I told her that we like to use four different oils combined together because we’re not smart enough to know if one of them is the best. And I don’t think that I would love to talk to somebody that knows exactly which molecule to use for which cancer. Because I’d love to see that data. I don’t believe anybody knows Israel doesn’t know and I, I’ve been doing this a long time. We don’t know. So what works,

John Malanca 28:30
what works for you what worked for Kevin’s father, having the same exact ailment may not work for the next person. That’s why

Unknown Speaker 28:37
we include all four of the major companies, they’ve all been proven to have solid anti cancer properties. And the acid molecules thca and cbda are much much much better anti nausea molecules than either THC or CBD. So the acid molecules are really important. And, again, what’s cool about them is you You can grow this stuff and eat it just like john says. Right often said the leaves because I’m spoiled, I would use the buds, crush them up with my hand, I tell a patient to put it in a little hole fat yogurt

Unknown Speaker 29:13
and just have a tablespoon of it.

Unknown Speaker 29:15
Because having half a gram a day of raw meat people are making can grow from CBD, crew calm these little auto flowers that are one to one, you could eat the bud or mix it up and they’ll give you the CBD a and THC a and then you could put it in a vaporizer and they fit to get the active molecules or take it to the next step and extract it but I think vaping very small amounts of per day makes a lot of sense. I mean, the absorption rate is like 95% as opposed to like 25%. So the question is, do we reduce the dose a little bit? So we’re scratching our heads on that one, but It’s a very that’s the way for the majority of people to treat cancers to grow these one to one plants from CBD crew, and then eat half of them raw and bake

Unknown Speaker 30:13
the rest. You know, I don’t want to give anybody

John Malanca 30:17
false hope and you and I always talked about hope. But I want you to share your PSA numbers now what they were in with you?

Unknown Speaker 30:24
Yeah. So when I get hospital, I mean, I don’t remember the first two days of the hospital at all. But my PSA was 6000

Unknown Speaker 30:35
nobody ever seen one of 6000 so they ran it again. And it was 6500 in growing.

Unknown Speaker 30:44
But now it’s

Unknown Speaker 30:46
point 5.6

Unknown Speaker 30:48
and I’m in remission. And I know for sure my bones have healed I took a really bad bike fall a few weeks ago and as I was going down was an oil slick thing. I’m not thinking God I have

Unknown Speaker 31:01
nothing, nothing. Good.

John Malanca 31:04
So, you know, among many patients and you being an awful patient, as you mentioned, you know, when they hear those words, you have cancer, you mean your whole world process? How can this happen to me? I mean, when Chris and I received that diagnosis, it was June 29. We are in our office planning my 50th birthday planning our wedding anniversary, we had a three week trip all planning to get that our doctor calls who was also our friend, to give those words it’s like, wow, okay, what do we do and a lot of, you know, because we have a lot of center fingertips we were able to go you know, the canvas route, the natural route, the integrative oncology route, and we did everything we consulted with doctors, when I say all over the world, Australia, New Zealand, Italy, UK, Mexico, us, you know, but a lot of the patients that we work with and I’m sharing with you, they always say I’m going to try the conventional route first. And then if that doesn’t work, I’m going to use cannabis and so can you talk about that it’s okay you know, we’re never tell anybody not to go the conventional route or not to do this.

Unknown Speaker 32:14
I wrote I wrote a blog post just on this topic. And I think

John Malanca 32:19
I’ll post it on the site but go on maybe left corner on

Unknown Speaker 32:25
your site to pick

Unknown Speaker 32:26
it. That’s right.

Unknown Speaker 32:27
I’d love to have a corner somewhere like anything cannabis corner, okay. Dr. Alan Frankel.

Unknown Speaker 32:34
It’s um

Unknown Speaker 32:36
I’ll be fine. But But they’ll

John Malanca 32:37
talk about that it is okay to combine in why it is okay to combine.

Unknown Speaker 32:42
reason that and I have one of my blogs is specifically it’s good to use candidates, even if chemo is curing you the cannabis, but one anxiety, which everybody has it now of course with COVID everybody has more pain issues, sleep issues, nausea issues, appetite issues. These are all issues that people with cancer have. And they certainly all have it when they’re going through chemo and to some extent radiation. So I tell the patients when we start them on the combination oil, which is 10 milligrams of each CBD and this is not, I can’t give this medical recommendation, I’m telling you what I’m personally taking. So I think that’s the way What do you think john? Is this this whole thing is tricky about telling doses? I can’t, this is not a medical recommendation. This is what I’m personally doing.

John Malanca 33:39
Alright, we’ll just let’s just throw that disclaimer here. You know, this is not to replace a one on one with your physician if you want a one on one physician, Dr. Franco’s, as I mentioned, is located in Santa Monica, California. He does now just on the internet.

Unknown Speaker 33:56
One more time, sorry.

Unknown Speaker 33:57
I’m in the cloud down.

John Malanca 33:59
You’re in the cloud. Thanks. Exactly how radical is that, huh? I use one of your terms. But you do consult with not only families, doctors not only here in the US or California but and World War Two So, so again what Dr. Franklin, what we’re talking about here is just expert advice. What we’ve seen over the years, but again, it’s not to replace a one on one with your physician. Dr. Frankel has numerous consultations with the patient and the physician. So if your doctor is open to this, invite them in, it’s best to have as much information and Arsenal battling what you’re going through, it’s something as severe as cancer and so that

Unknown Speaker 34:42
the doctors I mean for them, it’s it’s a cool tree way because it’s the same price and he or she will get a reasonable reasonable introduction to candidates because that’s part of every visit

Unknown Speaker 35:00
So let’s talk let’s talk about

John Malanca 35:03
what one goes through a chemo radiation. But why cannabis does help for appetite stimulation, nausea,

Unknown Speaker 35:11
pain,

Unknown Speaker 35:13
mood,

John Malanca 35:13
mood, and mood. And

Unknown Speaker 35:15
one thing that I’d like to say that I don’t know how many other cancer patients have had this, but I imagine probably most of us for the first two or three months, I would wake up in the middle of the night and thinking, God, I have cancer, then I would think, no, that was a dream. Then I was a tiny bit more awake a few seconds late, I thought, No, it’s real. And it was like, Ah, it’s just, you know, devastating. He couldn’t go back to sleep. And that was that was depressing, but I don’t know why I feel anything happier than I was before. I think it’s like a second if you get a second chance. on life, if you take advantage of it, there’s a lot of opportunities there. My mother used to tell me one thing that is, I think is a great thing to fall your life by. If you’re walking along and going along, it could be a real trail or it could be a project business, money adventure, and you come across a big boulder and obstruction, something, don’t blame the rock, don’t blame to somebody else, put the blockage there. Assume that in large part you got to that point because you got to that point on your own and look inwards, don’t look outward, and you will then find a path either over the rock to the right side to the left side, maybe pushing the rock that will take you to a better path that you could have never thought of.

John Malanca 36:45
It’s so true. I’m reading a book right now too. That is basically saying hey, you kind of don’t sweat the small stuff. The sun came up yesterday. It’s gonna come up tomorrow. And what you do in between all that is up to you. So don’t just like The rocks in front of me I can’t do anything I can’t you know what climb the rock see other Yeah. And I say I don’t know where to start. Just start creating like babe I have a list of stuff I have to do. I’m stress you don’t use the word stress. Write it down and she’s in Where are you start? Just start and I said, God you’re brilliant that’s

Unknown Speaker 37:25
like her who said this quote but when you get to a fork in

Unknown Speaker 37:28
the road, take it take it

Unknown Speaker 37:32
doesn’t matter which path it’s gonna work out. If it’s like there’s a pony somewhere right I think we all know that story. So it’s um

Unknown Speaker 37:42
so it

John Malanca 37:44
back to the fork and road like my mom for a drive this last weekend and we went up in the hills and where do we go? I should just went you know, we were I mean I said we’re not here. You know we get lost great. If not, and we had a we saw an adventure she was caught. I would never have gone up there if it wasn’t for you when I said you know, Mom, I probably wouldn’t have gone up there when I was by myself either. So let’s go back to your house

Unknown Speaker 38:06
and I are gonna do when we

Unknown Speaker 38:10
when Alex and I are gonna do one weekend we’re gonna go because LA is a car city. Right now the roads are all wide open and car rentals of like Lamborghinis and Ferraris. So we’re gonna like rented for four hours and just go up the coast and just drive and getting going to the canyons and you know brief like, where you do your biking?

Unknown Speaker 38:31
Yeah, that should be a lot of fun. Well, we get one each year just just go together. We’ll go together. He’ll drive. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 38:40
there you go. It’ll scare iOS. It’ll scare the crap out of me. He already scares the crap out of him. But

Unknown Speaker 38:45
he’s a good driver. Well, let’s get back on this cannabis

John Malanca 38:50
up here because we can we can go on

Unknown Speaker 38:56
I think it’s okay to seek evolving so like the car show thing where I suppose

John Malanca 39:00
Going out what what a birthday gift that current gave me one year was up at Sonoma Raceway Formula One cars. And I raced them for the de

Unknown Speaker 39:13
bon bon bronze course.

John Malanca 39:15
No, it was just they do have an they actually might have been it might have been. I did that course. And it was well, is that that the instructor that the Yeah, yeah. Ah, it was incredible. It was an incredible so if anybody wants to surprise their loved one their spouse or themselves, go to cinema Raceway rent get into you take it take a course in the morning, you’re in the class, you know, and they talk about the course and what you do and it’s no it’s it’s a speed shifting. So, but we did that and you’re hitting a couple G’s going around those corners and you’re down below and it was it was an incredible experience. So Either rent a Ferrari or Lamborghini up in the hills of LA or come up here in Northern California and go to cinema, it’s definitely worth it. Live life, you know, we only have one life and as you just meant you had a second second chance in life, and you’re going to live it. Let’s go back to the topic of, you know, can I use CBD or cannabis with chemotherapy and a lot? How do you approach this conversation with an oncologist who is anti cannabis, because this happens all the time. I don’t want to bring this up to my doctor, but I, I feel when this is your health, and you should share everything that you’re doing. So the doctor knows, okay, we can make some certain tweaks here because a lot of doctors will say, you know, okay, patient x, if I find out that you’re using cannabis, I’m gonna have to ask you to get another doctor. And so a lot of times they say great happened to my aunt, she fired her doctor, she went went to someone else. You know, some Watch

Unknown Speaker 41:00
actors. I mean, it’s it’s so ridiculous. It’s so glad to share with

John Malanca 41:05
families here in California or throughout the country, legal state or illegal state, it’s not illegal to have that conversation. And if your doctor doesn’t know this knowledge, say, Can you recommend a doctor that would which is why you get a lot of Doctor referrals, not only here in California but throughout the country say, I don’t know about cannabis. But here’s a doctor that I worked with or I feel confident recommending you talk talking to regarding this. So with cannabis can cannabis help with chemotherapy in battling the cancer not only with

Unknown Speaker 41:43
nausea, appetite, stimulation, mood, and pain relief?

Unknown Speaker 41:48
Yeah. So what as I look back upon the last five years since we’ve gone to this multi molecule, multi oil concept, it’s actually Very, very, very simple idea. If you go back to the plant from hundreds of thousands of years ago, it had CBD, THC thca cbda. All these were about 1% one and a half percent, but they were about equal. And the two most common were CBD and THC, which then meant CBD a and THC, but much, much, much, much lower concentrations than we have now. But

Unknown Speaker 42:30
which direction do you want me to go on this chart again? Take the fork of the road, take the fork in the road.

Unknown Speaker 42:39
So we, I would say starting we started doing dos stuff nine years ago and I’d say about seven years ago. We were starting on if you look at a hill, on one side of the hill, we were looking what is going to help people with their nausea with their appetite with their pain with their anxiety with all the issues related to symptoms. related to cancer and symptoms related to chemotherapy, including how to Is there a way of preventing neuropathy and with chemotherapy. And there is and we’ll talk about this at another time in great detail. But CBD whole plant CBD at a dose of 30 milligrams a day plus or minus will, in the vast majority of patients prevent them from getting neuropathy. So that’s one huge benefit one not to get the neuropathy, but to, I’ve seen a number of patients that are using a neuro cytotoxic chemotherapy in the developing or apathy, but the drugs really working in their cancer is going away. But the doctor then had to stop because that neuropathy people would rather it’s called suicide pain, it can be really awful. So we’ve come up actually the treatment that transdermal for the pain, but it’s much better. If you using the CBD, you’re gonna be able to tolerate the chemotherapy better and you won’t get neuropathy, which is a big deal. The other thing before we go into the nausea and the more routine things is that CBD has recently been shown and it’s more than it’s at least two studies and I think it’s three or four studies that with different chemotherapy agents CBD prevents the chemotherapy agent from losing its potency.

Unknown Speaker 44:26
Wow.

Unknown Speaker 44:27
Yeah. Because chemo, if chemotherapy didn’t become resistant, things would be way, way better. So honestly, just for that one reason people should be taking cannabis and it’s preventing neuropathy, and the acid molecules and THC are all helping with nausea, appetite, sleep, the early morning awakening that people get when they start feeling anxious during the day. This keeps you asleep more. I have people kind of double the dose an hour before their chemotherapy or radio Because the be a little stone when you’re getting chemo or other IV drugs I can personally from personal experience now, it is way better to be a little bit medicated. And it personally, I mean, I tried the standard meds, including payments, including narcotics, because I was having a lot of pain, I mean a lot of pain. And I really didn’t want to be on the narcotics. So I, one day I was having excruciating pain, and I was seeing a patient. Now up at the board I was standing up in front of and all of a sudden this hip pain came in that felt like a knife was stabbing and I thought, How do I keep myself together with this, these patients that are in there in the room, and I just get through it. And afterwards, I talked to my office manager Alex who whom you know very well, who’s like the third son to me and I just took a pretty good dose of ta See, and in 30 minutes, my pain was gone. I mean, and I was gonna call my doctor for some other pain pills and what why would I not want to get reached for THC more? But you know what? Even I was assuming that it couldn’t help this pain this pain is so bad there’s no way. I hope everybody’s gonna be okay with it but I’m gonna need narcotics for this pain. I have not used one narcotic pill the whole time. It’s not

Unknown Speaker 46:29
true.

Unknown Speaker 46:30
That’s true. I tried one. And I didn’t it didn’t help me and it made me sick. So and I used to love narcotics by the way they I mean I have an excuse for narcotic was but it THC is better in pain when it’s really severe pain. And for the pro a lot of the pain is inflammatory pain and THC a the raw form THC acid is turning out to be the treatment for arthritis and what I’m doing For more and more patients, and especially the chemo patients that have inflammatory processes part of their chemo, the CBD and THC a are important. And it turns out for all these people, these four molecules help the nausea, vomiting, your appetite, sleep, anxiety. And on the other side of the mountain, we’re looking at what’s a good dose for having an anti cancer effect turned out to be the same dose. Now, I’m not saying that we have the dose to treat cancer. I’m what I am saying, though, is there I have no doubt that what we’re doing is real for both on the symptom side of the mountain, and the cannabis in the in the cancer side of the mountain. And if the same dose, which makes sense works for both, then

Unknown Speaker 47:53
what’s the argument

Unknown Speaker 47:55
but possible argument could somebody have

John Malanca 47:58
since we’re on dosa, I know we’re Going to kind of bouncing here but

Unknown Speaker 48:03
more is not always better.

John Malanca 48:06
And it drives me nuts when I you know, go online or I hear hear other people talking is like you have to blast it as much as you possibly can. And sometimes that’s not always a good thing. Can you talk about the benefits of milligram dosing versus gram dosing and age, their current health condition? You know, you’ve worked with patients that have been elderly and they take a high high high dose, a gram of oil, which is a very uncomfortable feeling, and I hope I mean, I always describe it like and I’ve never taken a gram. I took a capsule one time of Koreans father when we couldn’t I were down to Santa Barbara and we had to pick up some medicine for him and in our normal dispensary was up here in the San Francisco Bay Area. And we end up getting a capsule and it turned out it was a quarter or I was excuse me, it was David a half gram of water. And now I shook for two days. So it’s an uncomfortable feeling. It’s not something you can do that dose

Unknown Speaker 49:06
of a natural plant that makes you people violently ill be the right dose. I mean, it just, we have to use logic to some extent that’s ridiculous. And also mean to me, why not use the every major cannabinoid and even the major terpenes everyone has been shown to be anti cancer. Everyone has been shown to help with pain and I can’t think of any reason not to use it, whether you believe it’s just gonna be helping you feel better and sleep better and tolerate chemo and as well as preventing side effects and if any long term effects like neuropathy, also, there’s just an article out that CBD there’s a chemo drug doxorubicin and there’s a number of drugs related to it that really knock out your heart and CBD prevents that Part damage from the rubescens deal with a really big deals. And while it’s it’s helping the chemo work, the chemo helps the cannabis work. And I I’m not anti chemo depends what but it comes down to at the end of the day, from my suggestion that people wonder history and how they’ve been doing and tolerating stuff. But I think that if there’s a 30 or 40% chance that you can get that data that you’re going to have a good response that’s worth it. Maybe 40%. But if they give you 10%, I mean, that means it doesn’t work. And then you’re doing it just so that you’re doing something and I would say, just

Unknown Speaker 50:46
do the cannabis isn’t.

John Malanca 50:49
There’s a study that shows chemotherapy. Success here in America is 2.3% and it’s 2.1. percent success rate in Australia or vice versa. I don’t know why they use Australia as a marker. But I’ve heard that numerous times a lot of integrative oncology conferences. You know, and that’s, that’s one reason why we did not do that with cringe diagnosis with pancreatic and krin had three blood tests and all blood tests came back. No cancer blows my mind. And then we do an ultrasound and they’re like, actually, it is here. And so kooky. You know, pancreatic is just a different different breed. cc warmer, I’m sorry, that our GCC testing from green with that was one of the three and that one came back with with 00 cancer as well. And actually, I’ve seen that with

Unknown Speaker 51:41
a number of occasions. I don’t trust that test.

John Malanca 51:43
Yeah. And actually, I’m, I’m actually having a call with that gentleman. This week, actually, and that’s one of the questions I will ask him again, you know, I asked him at a conference one time and, you know, he wasn’t something he wanted to talk about in public, and the I never we never connected afterwards. And so I said, I’m not trying to throw you

Unknown Speaker 52:03
send, depending on what kind of testing as to send them a sample quad. Yeah,

John Malanca 52:08
yeah, I should, I should you know, I’m not here to throw you under the bus at all. There’s not what I when I you know, because Caitlin animus doesn’t work all the time you know other other modality stem cells don’t work on time, you know, and so I just wanted to know why why that one came out because it did. It did give us a lot of hope at that time. I still remember it. It was July 24. And we were down in Mexico treating crin. You know, for pancreatic cancer. Let’s let’s go back to nausea. You know, does CBD or cannabis help with nausea? And why? Because this is something that comes up all the time. You just talked about it. You know? You know when people go through, getting blasted with chemo, it goes after every cell in the body good and bad. Where? depends if you want to do it cannabis just goes after the battle. selves and can you talk about how it wide helps with with patients going through nausea?

Unknown Speaker 53:05
Well, it helps all cells. I mean, unfortunately, it can differentiate between cancer and non cancer. So there’s a lot of different support that it needs to do in the normal cells. And because they all have cannabinoid receptors, they wouldn’t be there. And even the mitochondria inside the cell, which are the energy producers, they are affected by THC A, which I think and why a lot of these neuromuscular disorders are responding to THC acid, which is, I mean, if somebody that’s been in a wheelchair for years, and you give them some ta drops, and they walk, I mean, he to psych a Jesus moment. It’s amazing. So, yeah, I mean, it just makes sense to me that the four most common molecules would be the ones that would be the most effective.

Unknown Speaker 53:57
Now that could be proven wrong, guys. I suppose

Unknown Speaker 54:02
but I don’t know how I mean, I don’t know how adding in a THC or CBD a is going to hurt somebody. I mean, there’s so many benefits, and now CBD a is 20 times or the 2000 way, way, way, way, way more active than CBD. So there’s also anti anxiety effects with CBD A. So I think it’s and you know what we’re seeing results that are spectacular really are and I’m not you’ve known me for a long time I’m not the guy that wants to claim stuff that I don’t believe

John Malanca 54:37
in and I like it too if you don’t know it. You see, I don’t know, but I’ll do the research. You know a lot of people play Yep, yep, yep, yep. And that’s where the part that drives me nuts about this industry is I never want to give anybody false hope. You know, giving them hope is incredible. And I think hope goes a long way and you and I’ve talked about this even walking out of your house out of your office and or walking You’re often to see patients walk out of there. And they’re a little have a little more pep in their step and then you say, Hey, can I give you a hug? And I said, I would love a hug and sometimes just that extra hug and now they’re walking out of there hundred feet toggling I’m going to get beat this and I’m or that lady that when I came into your office, she was from Utah, she and her husband drove from Utah

Unknown Speaker 55:23
to try this and that we can go on and on and on.

John Malanca 55:26
But that’s that’s that’s just what I share with cannabis refugees. You know, before you uproot your family, your life, your doctors, your jobs, and move to a legal state like California, come out here for a little vacation. Two weeks, two days, you know, whatever you can do to see if this actually works for you meet with a medical professional, go to LA beautiful day, you know, sit down the beach, go see Dr. Frankel. And

Unknown Speaker 55:51
your masks on and six feet

Unknown Speaker 55:53
apart.

John Malanca 55:54
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, a tin can. What was that Dr.

Unknown Speaker 55:59
Johnson Earlier in this we’re joking I actually have a

Unknown Speaker 56:03
meeting up a

Unknown Speaker 56:05
person of the feminine persuasion with masks six foot distance in a park this afternoon with pomegranate juice some yelling I’m thinking if I could get two empty cans and confine the string I mean I used to have when I was a kid I had a didn’t come to camp phone to my neighbor

John Malanca 56:25
the millennials today they don’t even know what to do it would it would a rotary phone you know right yeah. I think I think that that that will break the ice for her too. So let me know let me know how that date goes

Unknown Speaker 56:38
to candidates

Unknown Speaker 56:40
that she know your cannabis doctor. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 56:43
You know and I’m certain that that has gone

John Malanca 56:45
well and not so well with with with your introduction. Sometimes.

Unknown Speaker 56:49
I would say more negative than positive.

John Malanca 56:52
Wow. Especially especially being open minded in California, especially Southern people in Venice and Marina area. I had a

Unknown Speaker 56:58
boyfriend. He was a stoner. I think you’re gonna dismiss me as a stoner and that’s it. You know

Unknown Speaker 57:06
what, I don’t even know what is a stoner. What is a stoner?

John Malanca 57:09
Well, it’s funny you say that stoner The first time I when I went in to get my first medical cannabis card in 2009 or 2010. And I walked into this office and it was a beautiful office up here in the San Francisco Bay Area. And on the wall, had a poster. This is what a stoner looks like. And it was a police officer, a mom, a teacher, a grandfather in size, like wow, what a great way to define that, you know, because a lot of people have this stigma, hey, you smoke pot, you’re a stoner. You know, and and even when printed, I started this this organization. I didn’t put my last name and in anything I did press releases, and I just say john, and a lot of people in industry got upset with me. For that reason, how can you be how can this 2010 and I would say you know what my Pat, this wasn’t my life, you know, a lot of ex colleagues, a lot of family members, you know, don’t know about, you know what we’re doing. And then when Chris dad had the turnaround, because we really didn’t know about cannabis and we knew it would help with appetite stimulation, which is which the next topic I’d like to talk to you about, you know, we came across a study that showed 40% of cancer patient pass a malnutrition, wasting stages before cancer. Same thing with AIDS patient the wasting syndrome before each take. And so using cannabis you had what was there a brownie Mary, I think Dr. Abrams used to work it. She used to work with him up but she didn’t work with him. She was she would help the patients up there universe California, San Francisco, and she would bring in the brownies for the kidney. No, it was helping with their appetite and their mood. You know, and, and nausea and pain and so she was on to something you know, but I think they banned her out of there. Except for for bringing that in. But that was one of the things that made kryptonite

Unknown Speaker 59:05
banned from the Society for cannabis clinicians because I brought the four CBD bottles. I thought all the doctors would want them and I was

John Malanca 59:13
just Alan, I was at that meeting with you.

Unknown Speaker 59:17
You were there

John Malanca 59:18
around that. And I remember I gave you a ride back to Bart, and it was right right, right right away. And I was just blown away on on the reaction. And what I was like, God, these these are these are doctors working together. And it wasn’t only with you, you would have another doctor speaking about his or her practice and what they’ve seen with their patients. And the other doctors are like and I’m thinking Come on guys show some respect here. We’re all learning and you’re sharing your what you have seen and what you’ve seen has worked in your own personal practice. Doesn’t mean that it works for everybody, but you’re saying hey, I’ve I’ve seen this work. And this is what I use you know if it can help and save one person why not share that but anyway

Unknown Speaker 1:00:08
appetite

Unknown Speaker 1:00:10
it worked for me

John Malanca 1:00:13
we didn’t know the medical benefits and and so why the CBD or cannabis, THC and the other cannabinoids help with appetite

Unknown Speaker 1:00:22
primarily by stimulating the appetite center in the brain. It’s a mainly a direct effect. But the thca cbda definitely are having, you know, very powerful effects of THC will stimulate the appetite. Also CBD by through its anti anxiety issues anxiolytic things, we all if we get anxious, we get a little sick to our stomach, all of us. If we get really agitated, we just can’t eat well, the CBD Part Two tends to really help tremendously with the agitation. So then that’s one more way for the EPA. Right is is increased so your THC working and direct appetite stimulant. You have THC and CBD a being powerful anti nausea, and you have CBD that’s calming people, which which also helps to meet.

John Malanca 1:01:18
What is the best for cancer patient? You know, and in what work? Could we have a lot of cancer patients. We’re in the top of a cancer right now. What would you recommend for one of your patients that may be going through cancer, would you say? Take it because you hear a lot of cancer patients and you know, this is one of our dear friends she she recently passed a family My mom’s best friend actually. But she was finding success with, you know, an edible because she’d never been a smoker. She’s wanting an edible and help with the nausea. It did help with the pain and help and help with appetite. And so do you recommend an app edible versus tincture versus a vaporization of smoking.

Unknown Speaker 1:02:06
Um, primarily I recommend extracts which are tinctures, you know, extracts capsules transdermal to me I get the fact that people love edibles, but from a doctor’s perspective I would much much much rather see somebody me grab my capsule. Take a capsule and an hour later have a Sara Lee brownie. It’d be way more tasty. be healthier than Billy. I mean it’s not these people who are making baking these things are not you know, scientists, just to say the least. And also the heat. Not so much for the candies but for the all the baked goods, your maybe decarb your THC before you bake. them, but while you’re baking them for the 3540 minutes, you’re subjecting every cannabinoids 350 degrees, which totally changes everything and that’s why it’s so much heavier and so much more sedating because there’s a lot of oxidation of cannabis products.

John Malanca 1:03:15
You know, years ago, I want to say like 2011 it may have been you talking about you know about edibles and it’s like, Listen, if you want to medical just get the most what you want to eat, and pour your dose on that onto that brownie, cookie, yogurt whatever it is, and eat it that way. And you know what you have here this has been tested. You know this because you’ve eaten it numerous times if it’s a cracker Brazil Oreo for you know, whatever, your normal dose on that and eat it that way. And enjoy and both you know what’s happening, you know, when

Unknown Speaker 1:03:51
we got I got into, I think it was chocolate covered cherries that have very human cherries and injecting in a little tiny bit of the order. That was dose or chocolate truffles works well something where you can put the medicine after it’s baked or cooked. truffles are the best they’ve great and we this is not part of any business this was part of an afternoon fun. That not be

John Malanca 1:04:20
fun research and development we’ll put into that how brindy r&d Rd r&d is right

Unknown Speaker 1:04:28
let’s talk about

Unknown Speaker 1:04:31
the top

John Malanca 1:04:32
well what are your thoughts on micro dosing and I know we’ve had this conversation over the years and normally you with your quad for fours what you call it the you know the quad for meaning THC tcaa CBD and CBD a Can you talk about that you because I’ve heard you talk about 10 milligrams of each up to 20 milligrams of each and so what are you seeing with your patients and has that changed over the years?

Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
What was changed over the years is that we first were using CBD then we when data came out with CBD and THC, each 10 milligrams whole plant three times a day. we copied that patent mean, this was a GW patent that led to the trial, you’re showing the glioblastomas benefited by 30 milligrams a day of CBD, whole plant, CBD, and 30 milligrams of whole plant THC. And when I saw the published article, I was thinking first I thought, Oh, I’m freaking brilliant. I mean, I came up with the exact same milligram, exactly same milligram that these guys who have billions of dollars to deal with and so that’s good for my patients. But then I started, you know, thinking realistically, how did I come up with the exact same milligrams because I met the patent before they did the study, like five years ago. So the we’re getting more and more and more data with whole plant medicine in the real world as part of pharma Studies. And that’s where I get my data. I mean, to me, and I think my patients should want me to get my information. I’m a friend of mine shulam. in that office, we’ve done a number of things together. I sent him all my articles I’m getting, I’m getting a couple published. Finally, I cooked up with a group that really wants to publish a lot of case histories. And what I have are a lot of case histories, but I don’t have

Unknown Speaker 1:06:28
the time. Or the I don’t know how to

Unknown Speaker 1:06:33
format it exactly the way it needs to be format. So we have a we have a bargain. Now I give them I just write it, they redo it, and then we’ll publish it.

John Malanca 1:06:44
Yeah, we’re gonna have a lot of publication. It just brings you back to life experience, patient experience and personal experience of what you know, works doesn’t work. And that’s with anything in life. You know, Hey, I know where I can go. Shopping I know that the food safe or whatever you’re doing. Can we talk about that all cancers aren’t treated the same. You know what you do for prostate cancers, not what you do for glioblastoma and as well as treating a pediatric cancer patient up to a geriatric pan cancer patient. Well,

Unknown Speaker 1:07:22
to be honest,

Unknown Speaker 1:07:25
I know people would like to hear that we have, that we’re so smart that we know exactly what to do for this cancer and that cancer in this person. There definitely are a number of individual differences in administration.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:38
Timing, but overall,

Unknown Speaker 1:07:44
I to me, I don’t know which one of those four oils is going to be the best to that cancer in that patient. So this is just cannabis, when we have enough THC V which has also been shown to have positive really positive anti cancer effect and neuropathy. protective effect. add that in. We’re going to add that it’ll be it’ll be a five drug thing that probably take another year before there’s enough thcv to use for that. But I’m going to be adding key TV to my regimen a couple weeks from now.

John Malanca 1:08:17
And you know, you you do these cannabinoids into your system you take other daily natural supplements, vitamins, other other types of oils.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:29
Yeah, tom toms there. Well, vitamin

Unknown Speaker 1:08:37
K Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:40
You know,

Unknown Speaker 1:08:42
I and can you talk about this is really what makes me run

Unknown Speaker 1:08:47
rayovac batteries, I suggest you get a pack now.

John Malanca 1:08:50
This is COVID ses COVID. Say, you asked you have outlasted the Energizer Bunny Hmm.

Unknown Speaker 1:08:57
Well, what happened is I ordered not similar

Unknown Speaker 1:09:01
Because I got sick from but that still hasn’t come have to cancel it but it needed triple A batteries batteries came. So I have all these triple A batteries and Do you need any?

John Malanca 1:09:13
I have a whole refrigerator full Thank you though. Yeah and everything’s everything’s a plugin now anyway too you know but I have a handful of batteries around the house or a flashlight around the house that don’t work so they do need the batteries. You know that

Unknown Speaker 1:09:27
okay, for my grandkids I only get toys that are rechargeable through USB. That’s it.

John Malanca 1:09:33
What Why is it you have these extra flashlights around the house for emergency purposes and when you go to use them for debt drain, it’s I spent more money on batteries that I put in flashlights that I never use that that are just sitting there and I can do not like pot. I’m like, does it work with pronounced more batteries in there and then I’m like cool, it works. Go back, you know, month to month later. Try it and it’s out. You were talking about You know, we don’t know. And hopefully one day it’ll get to the point where you say you have prostate take this you have pancreatic kidney blastoma. We’re doing a little study

Unknown Speaker 1:10:09
pink with prostate cancer. I’ve got seven patients now who are in the mid to late 60s with very, very early prostate cancer. If PSA is around 1012 we’ve all seen urologist, oncologist, everybody just wants to wait did nothing. So they came in to see me, I thought, Oh, this is an opportunity to try something different for a few months and see how they do. So what I’m doing with these people, I just have some early results, but I’m just putting them on thca like 10 milligrams three times a day 10 to 15 milligrams three times a day. And one which I wasn’t surprised at all is a TA TA for both men and women really helps with urinary frequency and getting up at night. I mean, I used to get up seven times or six times I get up Once a buy for in the morning thca is amazing for the prostate. And I the we have two results back with these guys gone and gotten follow up since going on just thca in both cases, again this is early, but in both cases other PSA is dropped substantially and their urination

Unknown Speaker 1:11:25
decrease substantially.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:27
Yeah. So this is an opportunity to see what about just using THC a by itself that would save a lot of money. Not only that, if thca was really protective, or therapeutic for prostate cancer, anybody pretty much anywhere in the world can get some

Unknown Speaker 1:11:49
raw but right.

Unknown Speaker 1:11:52
That’s eating that after my lunch break. Let’s go that way. Yeah. I mean and by the way The cruncher I use is just a nutcracker thing. And it’s just fine for actual making it mean, a little bit of this and a little yogurt is all you need.

John Malanca 1:12:12
I mean, and so for our listeners that say, okay, that’s bud and I put that in I eat it will I feel feel something?

Unknown Speaker 1:12:22
All right. That’s a good question. I have a good story. Okay. I had a patient

Unknown Speaker 1:12:29
on pre COVID, who I was talking with, and we’re talking about THC a and that is not psychoactive. And Robert is not psychoactive and she said to me, Dr. Frank, I must disagree. And I said What happened? She said, I took some bud. It’s a little piece a few months ago when I was stoned for two days and said, Where was the butt and said, in the garage, in the garage, how long has it been in the garage? And she goes See Billy left for college? You know, it’s that time it was like 15 years have been sitting. So over time if you just leave it, it’s going to convert to T c. And that’s what happened. So I, I think we mentioned earlier but we’re doing a very, very, very simple study I just called the owner of one of the collectives and got some stuff just by coincidence just happened to be sitting for a year and a half. We’ll send it off for cannabinoids. We have the certificates of authenticity from when it was tested a year and a half ago, and it’s the same batch. So

John Malanca 1:13:37
you need some because when crin was ill I grew about six plants in our backyard and it produced a lot and we would juice and right when I was getting ready to take it down is when right when she passed and and so I have stuff I kid you not That’s two and a half years old. Would you like to see do any tests? It was it was some beautiful stuff, but two and a half years old, and I’ve given it to friends. And they say, this is this is incredible. I like the feeling of it, but it’s not. It hasn’t been stored. I just put it it’s

Unknown Speaker 1:14:18
I need about two pounds to do a test.

John Malanca 1:14:27
There’s about that there too.

Unknown Speaker 1:14:29
You know, I Rayburn, I used to joke around with people about that all the time. You know,

Unknown Speaker 1:14:34
need a sample. Yes, we do. How much? After three or four grams. I said,

Unknown Speaker 1:14:39
Why do you guys need that much. He said, We liked it. So

Unknown Speaker 1:14:47
if anybody surprised that I have cannabis here, they shouldn’t you’re you’re foolish. I mean, this is my life. It’s my love. It cured. It help. I can say And when to use that word but the none of the doctors have ever seen. Now let’s say my PSA gone from 6000 down to what they said it was going to be the 200 Mike mindset would have been cool to hundreds like nothing. But then it kept going down and down and down and down. And that’s where no doctor I’ve spoken to have seen this happen. So in the doctor what’s right, no doctor is seen a PSA.

John Malanca 1:15:31
Oh, drop. Yeah, I know, though and stay low. When I share and I think I cover these patients who have stroke with you that have called about prostate and like, you got to call Dr. Frankel. I mean, he’s not only works with numerous patients over the years with this, this this is what he’s going what he’s been battling and what do you think unhealthy PSA numbers and they’ll say, you know 2735 and I’m like, Try 6000 they said what? Yeah. And I said, What did you do anything? Give him a call, you know, and so you again, sharing your personal experiences, I’m

Unknown Speaker 1:16:09
helping people work with this. There’s some patients that should be taking hormonal blockers as part of their treatment and they’re stuck in a urologist office that’s not not with it or whatever. But ya know, I’m becoming a prostate cancer expert.

John Malanca 1:16:23
Yeah. And again, you were adopted into this, you know, you were kind of like, it was something that you were pulled in and say, Hey,

Unknown Speaker 1:16:32
it was a mountain. It was a big boulder that was placed in front of me, and I had to figure out what to do with it.

John Malanca 1:16:37
God God bless mom, huh? I mean, that’s wonderful.

Unknown Speaker 1:16:42
She was wonderful.

John Malanca 1:16:44
Keep talking here for a second. I’m going to close this door because it sounds like there’s a chainsaw or weed eater going down. So if you want to throw a question at you got I was just gonna go from this to that. You know, on how all cancers are treated differently and can we talk about the ingestion methods, but also what you’re hearing for rectal cancer, vaginal cancer, Pino cat penile cancer, and what there a lot of patients are reading and doing with suppositories,

Unknown Speaker 1:17:22
right? Okay. Well, it turns out that at least cannabis oil in the way that it’s generally prepared, it’s just not absorbed directly. And there were a number of tests that were done both at university Mississippi and we did it in Santa Monica where we gave a handful of patients suppositories that had, I think, about 350 milligrams of THC each, and then we drew their blood and measured their, their levels at one hour, two hours, three hours, and it was zero, I mean, zero and we couldn’t Give that dose to them orally because that’d be way too dangerous. I mean that but it doesn’t work and now there’s a form of THC called people are making a big deal of it, but I’m not that impressed. That just means and this is a patent by Dr. l solei. And I don’t mean anything negative in his name. If you take THC and you add this molecule Hemi succinate then it does get a pretty decent absorption. But you can’t just take acetate and mix it with THC oil and you’re going to have it we’re working on a different way which is similar to the transdermal treatment for neuropathy, where there are excipients that will help the original absorption rectal absorption and mixing them in and we we finally did once that we couldn’t be because of Ramadan if you can believe it. Because of Ramadan. We couldn’t get the testing done at university and sippy because Dr. Elsa lay Is he gyptian Last year saying you’re doing some blood tests, and he sends me a note. That is one of the funniest notes I’ve ever gotten in my life. He says, Dr. Allen, you’re in Egypt shipping was a fun. Dr. Allen. I’m so sorry. I didn’t get back to you. I was at Ramadan. And I said, You know, I hear that all the time as an excuse.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:23
He’s awesome.

Unknown Speaker 1:19:24
And he’s willing, when we started drawing blood and sending it to him in the University of Mississippi, that I didn’t have any issues that it’s legal to send blood even if it has cannabinoids in it, it’s legal. But he did, he said, you know, it’d be great if we could get the oils that to pay. I said, Do you want me to send cannabis oil to the University of Mississippi, the National Institute

Unknown Speaker 1:19:49
of Drug Abuse

Unknown Speaker 1:19:52
and I remember this conversation so while he said, Yeah, I don’t you think I’m trying to capture you? And he’s okay. Fine. So we started sending him the oils. And we had a little By the way, in case anybody’s listening to this set would like to donate to a very good project. Um, we need to with all these products, we need to figure out how to get a lab going, that will test them properly. And we’ll test a final product. I mean, if this were a bottle right here and visible bottle, and you knew precisely what terpenes, flavonoids, waxes, everything

Unknown Speaker 1:20:30
are in it.

Unknown Speaker 1:20:31
What concentration and like limiting x nanograms per ml know what that is? It’s not talking to Dr. raber it to me, it’s unbelievable. It’s unbelievable that we’ve been doing testing for nine and a half years and we still can’t test the final product. So the best anybody can do is to measure the original oil and then follow the delusions but we don’t know if it’s right and I to me until we can Measure terpenes and flavonoids in the final product. Anybody that says what terpene is based upon? What’s in the weed is what’s in the kidney cannabis doesn’t work. So we’re going to do this after Ramadan. If anybody out there has Ramadan, and I think it’s soon, but wouldn’t it be a great and maybe we’ll post it on your site, I don’t want to post it on my site, the results, the final results of all these big people, everybody, just buy a bottle of like the high CBD products and find out what the terpenes are. I think a number I’m not gonna mention any companies but there’s one company and I think there’s many of them. There’s one I know for certain that started out making really great products, I think as good as anybody made and now they’re there. They still called cannabis but it’s mostly hemp based. So what people are doing, it’ll take a little bit of cannabis, though. It’s like cutting drugs like putting in Something else. So they’re putting in hemp based CBD. So when people test the cannabinoids, it’s what could be whatever it is whatever you want it to be, but the terpenes aren’t in there. And until we can test that we really don’t know what the quality of medicine is.

John Malanca 1:22:14
That’s why testing is so important. I share that with patients all the time. You know, go in there. If you don’t see a test result for that product if you’re purchasing in a dispensary, go to another dispensary or try another product. I mean, nowadays with regulations, they’re really cracking down on that and, and make sure you you you ask for them. And if you don’t, you’re the patient. You know, you’re putting this in your body. So would you go out and drink a bottle ice to profile call? No. There’s a reason why the wineries aren’t down there in the corner by 69 cent bottle rights appropriate gone, as

Unknown Speaker 1:22:50
our president recommends that you drink bleach.

John Malanca 1:22:53
Oh, that’s right, huh? Yeah. Everything even the Coronavirus. Let’s go into you’re talking about testing, you’re talking about terpenes into different cannabinoids. Let’s talk about

Unknown Speaker 1:23:07
is there a certain

John Malanca 1:23:11
I’m going to catch myself your strength and we really don’t talk strains anymore. But is there a certain like indika or citybus indico or Stephen better for nausea than something else?

Unknown Speaker 1:23:21
No, you can’t mean the thing is you there are no real citybus or indicas anymore because they’ve been crossed as a Heba, a typical suceava plant. We take 1415 weeks to flower as opposed to your typical indigo, which is eight weeks, who do you think wants to have to wait 14 weeks. So what we’re doing with one of the TTB strains, strains that takes 14 weeks, is crossing it with the CBD plant, which probably will make it down to an eight week plan, which then theoretically, you’re turning a TV into an index It doesn’t matter. It doesn’t matter what matters is what the chemistry is. That’s what matters.

John Malanca 1:24:06
You know, you mentioned CCTV and indika like Colin’s father. He had a heart arrhythmia. You know, so he had to stay away from any upbeat stuff and back then, you know, it was like like coffee. Yeah, that was keeping away from from a sativa strain for that purpose and again, everyone’s different when he would use a citybus strain you will see a change in his reaction to that and so we and we didn’t have labs back then it was the blind leading the blind we had trial and error knock on wood. Thank goodness we didn’t have any.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:41
I think I can come up with a reasonable idea to explain what’s going on in the dispensary to the city but indika thing, okay, no matter how much I’m going to say, look, these are all cross together and we don’t really know

Unknown Speaker 1:24:55
at the same time.

Unknown Speaker 1:24:57
If you were a buyer for a dispensary If I were a buyer or buyer of a dispensary, I would have a group of people try every strain. Now there, some are going to say this is more uplifting and some are going to say this is a little bit more sedating. So the sedating ones get listed as indicas. And the more uplifting one to citybus. So I think that’s actually helpful information. I was telling people up until this past year that it doesn’t matter at all, because we don’t know about to tune in to come. But we do know that this drain for the majority of people is more uplifting. We don’t know why. But if we were taught if we could check all the molecules inside we would, I mean, when I was in mushrooms lab, he showed me his list. This is unpaper. Dr. Mushroom, it was some tacked to a wall. And you could tell the paper was years old every time they found a new cannabinoid or terpene or flavonoid or wax molecule He wrote it down on this paper and it was now the last one I was there was 999 unique molecules they’ve isolated in cannabis I mean now there it’s beyond that,

John Malanca 1:26:11
that that will go on to the Christie’s market down the road for a million bucks like a john lennon Paul McCartney you know song written down on a napkin you know, so that’s that’s a great poet I stolen Okay, there you go. It’ll be on on eBay right like with Tom Brady jersey. One thing you’re talking about, you know, letting all your employees try that you know, if you’re in a dispensary, I still can’t wrap my head around the cannabis cups when they award you know, this is the not number one. But in this, you know, that was submitted. I understand wine tasting. Spit it out. But how do you tell if you know is this is this over, you know, a year process or is it over the weekend or like, okay, that’s Allen’s Yep, that’s a nine.

Unknown Speaker 1:27:06
Oh, that’s john. Okay. What’s your name again?

John Malanca 1:27:10
Go down five more to how do you actually know and how are they testing this? I mean, that’s when I always say, Oh, yeah, we’re kind of Cannabis Cup winners. How I mean, I don’t understand that. Pretty political. Yeah, a little like a lot of stuff in industry, you know, but

Unknown Speaker 1:27:28
hopefully everybody agree that this is the best strain here at this. Yeah. I don’t go to those events anymore.

John Malanca 1:27:34
Yeah, it you know,

Unknown Speaker 1:27:38
I don’t tend to learn very much. It’s not worth the time.

John Malanca 1:27:41
Well, it’s I think it’s a fun fun getaway. And if anybody has never missed it great. Like you grocer. definitely interesting. I mean, you you you’ve I remember with my guide, one time we were in Colorado, and he went down. He was, you know, talking about the cash side foundation in pediatric cancer and he went through and he’s an incredible You know, Father one, but also incredible man, very knowledgeable, but very personable. And he went up and down there hundreds and hundreds and criminai are falling, he had a blower and he just went through and he said, Where are you guys from? And it was amazing to see how many people from around the country and around the world came to this Cannabis Cup when cannabis became recreationally legal in the state of Colorado, and you know, it changed a lot of people’s lives. It brought down a lot of stereotypes, but also broke. You know that it is helping it is it is medicine, and I really couldn’t I got into some critters like, come on, is this really medicine? Is this really medicine? And she started doing her research. And this was before we really got into this, you know, and she realized, oh my gosh, why isn’t everybody taking this? You know, you showed showed me all your vitamins and supplements. You know, I tell people Time treated as a vitamin or something that you don’t have to be high to have the results. You know you can take the THC a nutrient. It’s right. It’s a nutrient nutrient

Unknown Speaker 1:29:11
nutrients. And so

Unknown Speaker 1:29:12
you know your question you asked me about

Unknown Speaker 1:29:16
in school you had one question

Unknown Speaker 1:29:20
well, it’s that question that question yeah

Unknown Speaker 1:29:26
yeah we you know I think this

Unknown Speaker 1:29:29
show dialogue we should try and

Unknown Speaker 1:29:32
keep it casual enough that it could be it could come across like the Seinfeld car show only let’s let’s keep it that way

John Malanca 1:29:39
talking talk talking about that. So let’s do

Unknown Speaker 1:29:42
this. I have a great idea. Let’s do a car.

John Malanca 1:29:46
You know, let’s do the car off the coast, comedians drinking coffee and we could do it that way. Right? I did a I was in Boston.

Unknown Speaker 1:29:56
Wouldn’t it be fun?

John Malanca 1:29:57
was funny. I was in Boston, and I had We were talking a nurse, I work with Beth, we were talking. And she said, we should have recorded this whole conversation. And we drove from one meeting to the next. And it was just talking about cannabis. And we went all over and she’s like, gosh, we should have we should have we should have recorded that. And so but I agree with you. So let’s, you know what, tell Alex when he doesn’t want to drive we’ll get in a Ferrari. You’re now getting a Ferrari and drive the hills of LA and we’ll do a show for

Unknown Speaker 1:30:27
house and I’ve talked about it he he’s a major major car aficionado.

Unknown Speaker 1:30:33
Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. Have you watched that? Seinfeld’s

John Malanca 1:30:39
cars and comedians are key, you know, community is great. And plus, you know, the, you know, the cars that he’s getting the driving and the history of these cars. Yeah, they’re not all his cars. You know, he’s borrowing these cars and

Unknown Speaker 1:30:53
they’ve got garages for them and they’ll loan them out to people and

John Malanca 1:30:57
I’ve ever this one he broke down. He’s like, Oh, no. He was a switch on a maybe an old Austin. And he switched. He’s like, I broke it, you know? And so yeah, like I’m afraid to tell the owner about this too. But anyway, and I, you know, I appreciate your knowledge, your personality, your stories. You know, not only about your patient stories, but also your own personal stories with your family, you and your health. And, you know, I thank you for coming on. And trusting me with what I do what we do over here. And I want to get well next How about next topic, we’ll talk about autoimmune diseases. And I know you’ve had some incredible blog if you haven’t been to Alan’s site, greenbridge medical.com. Med calm me greenbridge med calm. You can see a lot about Alan, what he’s written over the years what he’s experienced his personal stories, what he’s done with patients, and some of his research. One thing I don’t know, if you’re in You got out of this podcast is that you know Dr. Frankel is a great guy but he’s a researcher and he reads and reads and reads and not only does he read he reads a lot of patents you know, what are these pharmaceutical companies spending billions of dollars on you know, even like Sativex, you know, whether you’re pharmaceutical for MS, you know, 2.75 milligrams of CBD 2.75 milligrams of THC. That’s the secret sauce. It’s not like what you have in Dr. Pepper or Coca Cola, or McDonald’s and their secret sauce. It’s, you know, this is cannabis and people have replicated it. And so instead of spending thousands and thousands of dollars, I mean, Sativex is not available here in the US, for whatever reason is epidiolex is also very, very expensive. Even with insurance.

Unknown Speaker 1:32:45
The DEA will not approve medicines that have more than one molecule. It’s, it’s, I mean, it’s to me, arrogance, the arrogance to be sitting here and saying, we just need that one molecule 23 million years of evolution that made this plant 1000 molecules. It’s an accident. But what clearly is the right thing to do is to take all those 999 and throw them away and just take this one. And let me just end on this one last point. So why are these people doing CBD isolate their THC isolate? I mean, why in the world would they think doing that? When it’s cheaper to buy what they now call, I call it whole plant. They call it crude oil. So why why are they taking what they call crude oil which is really grateful plant well, because the testing is so critical that it’s almost impossible to grow cannabis that’s a safe enough level for pesticides. So this is called remediation. They have cannabis that is contaminated with and I think the state’s too picky on this one. But regardless that those are the laws so it tests Positive for pesticides, your choice of two things, one, throw it away, which all of us had to do since new laws or to remediate it, which means pull out just that one molecule, throw away the rest in that one molecule will be clean. So it’s much more expensive that it’s way way lower value.

Unknown Speaker 1:34:26
So you’re recommending

John Malanca 1:34:27
whole plant

Unknown Speaker 1:34:29
whole, like your products, your cannabis products. If I’m using one thing that’s important today, it should smell like cannabis. That’s how you know this whole plant left in it. I mean, okay,

Unknown Speaker 1:34:41
simple,

John Malanca 1:34:42
simple, simple. Well, Alan is I know you but Dr. Frankel. Thank you. I wish you a lot of fun and luck tonight on your your long distance date and I think go go get that go get that can or the string and I think you have to bring that

Unknown Speaker 1:34:59
I know To Korean boot camps, rival cans of food there,

John Malanca 1:35:02
there you go, you know open up your cans of chili and put them in a Tupperware and do it that way. So that would be very funny. Well, I want to hear Part Two we’ll get you back on the show and we’ll talk about like I said autoimmune disease. I would like to talk about the difference between hemp CBD versus cannabis CBD. I know there’s a big controversy there like talking about RSO oil versus full extract cannabis oil, as well as dosing and why why less is more and then talking about some of the other topics that you really hit up on my Steve Gravis with one but also talking about, you know, athletes and and cannabis as well. So, Doc Frank talks about, and there’s a lot talked about. So we’ll get you back on here and have a great day, everyone. This is John Malanca with United pace group, be informed and be well we’ll see you soon. Bye bye. I John Malanca here with United patients group. I hope you’ve enjoyed our videos,

Unknown Speaker 1:36:01
please click like

John Malanca 1:36:03
as well as subscribe to our channel here on YouTube. Also follow us on Twitter at you patients group and on Facebook united patients group, as well as for our podcasts. Please click the link in the description below. We’ll see you there. Bye bye